single hooks vs. treble hooks, sickles vs. straight siwash

[bob r]

Our favorite lake (no kokes, though!) has changed regs this year, only single hooks are allowed. We were nervous about lost hook-ups, switched over to two styles of hooks for comparison, sickle hooks from Matsuo (red, 1/0) for 3/8 to 1/2 oz. lures and trokar siwash in 1's for 1/4 oz. lures. We are trolling spoons for native cutthroats which can be difficult to keep hooked up, the only fish more difficult are kokanee.The jumps they take are notoriously effective for throwing spoons with trebles. I'm glad to report we went 11 for 13 with a couple of small fish tapping which didn't hook-up and so weren't counted. I think they prob. would have been hooked on trebles and tore up, so an additional bonus for the larger singles. The sickles were esp. deadly, a couple of fish were impaled so well that the hook was actually in the bony skull,had to use some effort to remove. One larger fish took a 5 ft. vertical leap in vain to throw the hook, amazing hook set. Trokars were also great for hook sets, that surgical sharpening along two straight edges is REALLY sharp, also easily touched up with a stone. I really am considering switching EVERYTHING over for ALL lakes, and that is in itself an amazing testimonial. I am not so sure about spinners, we use single siwash on # 5 and 6 blue foxes for salmon, and still lose a good amount of fish we hook-up, but those are barbless hooks. Any thoughts on sickles for spinners on andronomous salmon? Advantages noted over straight siwashes? I know that the trokars will be an improvement on the Gamis I used for years, but maybe the sickles will work even better. Bob R

[KokeRook]

That is a nice bunch of fish there.
In my case, I have not fished trebbles fro trolling, I found that going to a larger hook increased my hook up to landing ratio dramatically.
I also increased my spacing a bit this year between the hooks.

This has all been koke fishing with hoochies, beaded spinners.

I'm not saying it's the only way to go...I just saying it is working for me now.

When I am CASTING spinners on the river for Salmon and Steelhead (most have to be barbless) ALL my spinners have Mustad Ultra Point Open Eye Siwash. I like them because of the slight offset and the somewhat shorter shank and they are VERY sharp.

I am personally not a fan of the sickle hooks. Only because I have lost fish from them breaking (This was while fishing for salmon in the river). Granted.....this was several years ago when matzuo was having issues with their tempering (several people I know had similar issues). They have fixed that issue now I'm told so should no longer be a problem. But it's a mental thing. Once it causes me to lose confidence I just can't do it.

These of course are just my opinions and may not be others experiences.
Tight lines,

[SuperD]

Treble hooks offer a lot of leverage to the fish to throw the hook. If I run a treble on a spoon, I'm always certain to add a swivel between the split ring and the hook.

[SuperD]

Watch the tuning aspect of this video for better hook set with the siwash hooks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui8xE1NgNv0

[bob r]

Great video,Super D, thanks for the link. The demo with the fish looks convincing, can't wait to try that. I don't want to add a swivel as the length is a might longer then, I don't think the leverage works as well for the fish as with a treble. If I had lost fish due to hook breakage I wouldn't use them either, glad I missed that glitch in production. Bob R

[Kokanee-Toni]

I have been using Matzuo sickle hooks for years. I have never had one break on a fish. I use them for kokanee fishing but the trout get at 'em, too. I have more confidence in a treble but they lose fish, too.
I don't use them on spoons though.

What lake went to single point bob? Although if it doesn't have kokanee I probably won't fish it.

[bob r]

Here is an update on off-setting hooks per vid. pointed out above for tuning siwash, it works for siwash but sickles work better without bending them to the side. We went back to the straight hook and our landing ratio went WAY up. We will give you an update on siwashes soon. Bob R

[clawman]

Treble hooks offer a lot of leverage to the fish to throw the hook. If I run a treble on a spoon, I'm always certain to add a swivel between the split ring and the hook.

I've heard the theory before that trebles allow the fish leverage but if the fish is leveraging one point against another isn't the one being leveraged driving that hook in? I tend to think the reason fish get off with treble hooks is there is more that has to penetrate if two points are going into the jaw and thus takes more pressure to drive a hook in. Barbless hooks take less pressure to penetrate but are more easily thrown.
I've often though a hook designed like like a porcupine quill would penetrate easily and hold due to all the tiny barbs.

[bob r]

I think that after examining a lot of jaw hook-ups that trebles can work against each other in that the opposing hooks can make the holes from the hooks larger by pulling against each other.When the fish's jaw opens from water pressure by being pulled in or from fighting and pulling it can make those entry holes bigger. I also find that the trebles can get bent and damaged when removing hooks and the net tangles can be a hassle. Both of these issues are solved by using single hooks.Also smaller fish are not tore up for release. Yesterday we went 13 for 16 in fish hooked up and landed to those hooked up and lost using Matsuo (Sp.?) sickle hooks (unbent straight out of package) on gibbs coho spoons( we were NOT fishing for Kokes, but cuts which while having tougher mouths still throw a lot of hooks free). tribal regs. on a tribal lake changed to single hooks this year, actually the best thing for us, forced us to try a more productive hook set-up! Bob R

[SuperDaveMT]

Just to add another element to this discussion, what about hook size? I am currently trying some #1 gami drop shot hooks. I feel like I hook a smaller percentage of my hits with the larger hook, but land a higher percentage of those I do hook. I haven't really calculated the overall effect. I do like the finer wire of the drop shot hook and will have to try them in #2 and #4 if I can find them. Also bigger hook on the top or bottom, or same size for both?

[bob r]

When I am setting up a two hook deal for bait of some sort (corn, maggots, worm bits, etc.)I go with a typical octopus hook (usually Gami) for my front hook and for the trailing hook I like a tru-turn hook, longer shank, finer wire, and I feel that the "cam action" of the hook makes for better hook-ups.I've actually caught light biters on the outside of mouth on the trailing hook with this setup.I feel that the finer wire doesn't wear as big a hole in the koke's soft mouth.Never used drop shot hooks for trolling, don't they stick out at a 90 degree angle from the line and does trolling change how the hooks stick out? When I set up two hooks I will use a larger hook in front. I agree with the larger hook idea, while you may not hook as many fish I feel that you will lose less and the fish you do hook will prob. be larger.Bob R

[gfakkema]

When I am setting up a two hook deal for bait of some sort (corn, maggots, worm bits, etc.)I go with a typical octopus hook (usually Gami) for my front hook and for the trailing hook I like a tru-turn hook, longer shank, finer wire, and I feel that the "cam action" of the hook makes for better hook-ups.I've actually caught light biters on the outside of mouth on the trailing hook with this setup.I feel that the finer wire doesn't wear as big a hole in the koke's soft mouth.Never used drop shot hooks for trolling, don't they stick out at a 90 degree angle from the line and does trolling change how the hooks stick out? When I set up two hooks I will use a larger hook in front. I agree with the larger hook idea, while you may not hook as many fish I feel that you will lose less and the fish you do hook will prob. be larger.Bob R

You are right Bob, the drop shot hooks do stick out a bit more than the octopus because of the straight eye (as opposed to the bent eye on an octopus). I have noticed that the drop shot style hooks really only stick out a bit when laying on a table, but definitely not 90 degrees (more like 30). While being pulled through the water though, they tend to flatten out and lay more on the leader. I have really only noticed about a 10 degree angle difference between octopus and drop shot style hooks while being trolled.
I completely agree with your larger hook theory too. I'm not sure if this years kokes in my area are just larger (which I would be willing to bet), but I noticed that the bigger hooks (size 1) helped with both my hooked/landed ratio and the size of the fish. I don't think I pulled in hardly any this year less than 15" and I would guess that the larger hooks helped with that. I tied a bunch of lures this year and my two favorite ones were double size 1's or a size 1 on the front and a size 2 for the trailer, all drop shot style hooks. With the larger fish (lake chelan avg 17" and american lake avg 16"), I didn't tie any leaders up with a hook size smaller than 2.