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I've never got to serious with hoochies, but am planning on trying them out more next year. I'm about to re-rig and thought I'd get some feedback to get a general idea of what pound test and leader length to go with since the hoochie seems to be the lure of choice with alot of you here.
I use 10 to 12 pound and usually run a leader from as much as six inches in length to usually no more than 12". sometimes these fisg get fussy as we all know. have to see what they want that day.
3/o Dodger, 21" 10# Leader
RMT has a good reference on the back of their packaged products. By following those guides and mixing some of your own(trial by error of course), you can't miss. I use mostly 10# leader but occasionally will use a heavier leader, the stiffer line will also aid in giving more erractic action to the hoochie. I used 12# leader, about 15 to 20in with a 2in green squid behind a large dodger and trolled once thru a bed of lakers and came up with a nice 4# laker pup. For Kokes, I keep approx. 10in leader with a hoochie behind a RMT dodger as an example.
I started out using longer leaders, but have been going shorter lately. The rule of thumb I've seen mentioned is the 2x4 rule, where you use a leader 2x the length of your dodger for lures that have no action of their own, and 4x the length of your dodger for lures that have their own action. I haven't become as sophisticated as some koke fishermen who have made a science out of getting the exact length of leader for the situation. Those guys are in a whole different league.
Your 2x and 4x equation is pretty much right on the money. You will be usually right in there with that
Nobody's mentioned using flourocarbon, I like 8# P-Line leader for tying up our Kokanee baits. We like to use it especially on those early season outings, we have caught Kokanee as shallow as 8 ft down in the spring, long line trolling. So to not have to segregate them, we just use it for all the time.
Taildancer
8# leader, ~20" long for everything... 2x and 4x eh? Apparently some more experimentation is in order...
I tend to go with what the fish want, if I can figure it out and they are being picky. Just as important the size of the dodger which makes a huge difference in the action where a fish has to try and swat a fly or can they just come up and track the lure easily for the kill so to speak. Add in your speed and the dynamic of a setup will change with lure speed. So I like to have two to three lengths, short 6-8 inches, medium (8-10) and long (10-12) for the hot setups and combos. I've watched a lot of fish on video get frustrated trying to track a swaying hoochie under a mediocre bite but when the bite is really on they will not hesitate to nail it just like trying to kill a fly.
So in the end my long winded answer here is "It depends" :)
Kevin
8 lbs leader and 20" length would equal a dead hootchie. But as Kevin mentions, there are some days that is what they want. I like it to sway with the dodger and therefore use heavier leader and close set back, 8" - 10".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cariboospeed
The long dead hoochie probably isn't the typical case for me at least but there was one trip that was an eye opener for me. A friend was on board who is an excellent Kokanee fisherman and so he had his favorite hoochie setups on one side of the boat. I had my usual short to medium setups using the same hoochie colors and similar dodgers and even the same ones. His setup was killing them and mine was not. I looked at his rig in the water and I joked that Hoochie isn't even moving the leader is so long. "Yah but it is catching fish he said" :-)
We had the same scents on so my theory on all of it was the fish get attracted by the dodger (as another Kokanee I believe) and thus being very curious fish they come up to the setup and run into Hoochie. They get a good whiff of the scent in here and and decide to take it out. Maybe they think that Hoochie or even other lures are bothering the fake fish (dodger) in the lead, but who knows.
So in the end and a few other trips there is always a place for me to experiment with a longer leader setup and also extremely short ones. It's much easier to quickly re-rig some different length hoochies if you have the spare hook setups pre-tied as opposed to having to re-thread some spinners. On this note I have heard of people tying up there lures all on the shorter side and then just running a variable length leader in front of it. It's a few extra connections but the change in setup is instant if you don't have multiple rigs.
Just more stuff to think about and over analyze in the end but if the fish are not biting and you have some lines to experiment with then why not play around as you may be surprised.
I like your observation HTK. This is a very good discussion. Right when you think there's becoming some established rules for some things, it gets thrown out the window. The rules are simple, there ain't none. I would always think that having a short leader would entice a strike not a dead stick. Its so easy in getting set in your own ways because what you have done in the past has produced. Someimes its hard to visualize how someone else comes in shows you something a little different. But when you try it and it doesn't work, are you asking yourself what are you doing differently? A haunting situation. fencing
Also I like to apply the same leader length mentality of variable lengths to spinners behind a Dodger. I tend to like around a 10 inch length for the bigger dodgers I run (3/0 or Crystal basin mid thing for example) It seems this last year a lot of reports were guys doing well on extremely short leaders, (Hoochies and Spinners). Look around and be observant of those catching fish as the Kokanee guys are clustered together a lot it seems, particularly in Ca. You can tell how far out of the water that dodger is before a fish gets netted especially if it is a long leader and you can tell what is being used.
Alot of great advise here! The lake I generally fish has very clear water, and I've found that longer leaders do very well...at least for lures that have action of their own. With these hoochie critters, I think the majority of fish are caught with a leader short enough to where the dodger gives the hoochie some side to side action. But like HTK said, there are those days when the kokes are looking for something different. I read a post once where the typical dodger/hoochie set up wasn't producing, but attaching that same hoochie to a leader and dragging it behind a small set of gang trolls knocked em dead...go figure! I think since I'm rigging up well over 50 set-ups I'll shoot for what works the majority of the time. On days when they aren't interested I'll go back to useing a Apex!thumbsup
I won't be running too many leaders that are bigger then my main line again next year laugh hyst I mainly use three different style dodgers and have different lengths for each one but all within the options in the poll.
for my hoochie rigs i prefer to go with 10-lb leader about 24" in length. thumbsup
Hmmm - just started koke fishing last year so this makes me wonder if that might be part of my problem with hoochies. Only hooked one last year on a hoochie rig. I have been running 10lb leader about 24" on all my rigs. I'll need to pay attention to what happens to them in the water.
While reading all your posts I can't help to wonder why everyone is using such heavy line for 4-6# fish at best. I believe the lure action comes from the lure itself. The lifeless hoochie or squid on short leaders become a necessity when run behind a small 4-5" dodger. Flashers don't require the short leader setup because they are an attractant, that's when I run 4-6' leader ahead of my own pre-tied lures. 10-16# leaders are heavy enough for Kings rather than Kokanee. Maybe I'm just a light tackle fanatic???? Oh, one more thing, I don't experience breakoffs due to the sensitivity of an ultra-light setup in line weight and limber rod.
:confused:;)
Since kokes aren't line shy, a heavier leader is often used to help transmit action from the dodger back to the hoochie.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeOnTheWater
One of my main reasons for using minimum 10# is after you catch a few fish on the same lure then the line gets frayed especially in the hook area just above and between hooks. This is compounded for those that use pliers to take the hooks out as they are not exactly surgeon's tools. With the heavier line I really don't have that issue and I never snap back hooks off. I ditched any pliers this last year as well in favor of the Xtools de-hookers which let you de-hook fish in and out of the water and preserve your line as well. Here's a link for a visual on the tool, multiple sizes as well.
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st...:referralID=NA
Kevin
I use 8# for everything on my fresh water rods. I might have 6# on my ice rig...Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeOnTheWater
I have trouble seeing and tying knots in finer line.
I use 10 lbs leader everywhere but tied some in 12 lbs last year just for Flaming Gorge. I was burned by a tackle manufacturer that uses, light / cheap line on a couple nice fish at FG last June. I'll be more dilligent at swapping out factory leaders for my own this year. You know how it is when you start hitting the bite hard and just want to get the line back in the water. I got lazy a few times and paid the price.
i get better hoochie action and more bites with the stiff 10 or 15lb florocarbon than even the limper mono.
don't be shy about mixing it up though on lb. test and leader length especially for hoochies, sometimes just a small change in action is all it takes to tip the timid biters over the edge into sockeye piranha on a feeding frenzy
my days of tying complex knots in 2 or 4lb line or tippets is over, even the strongest bifocals don't cut it.
like super D, i've been burned on the import tied leaders and lures.
lost a Chinook over 60 on the Columbia 25 years ago due import leaders.
Thanks, Smokin' Kokes, I'll try upgrading to at least 10 lb test flourocarbon this season to see if it helps on getting more bites. I use 8 lb most of the time (flouro) and a little bit longer than most reports on this thread.