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View Full Version : Nantahala Kokanee and NC Wildlife Comm.



Dr. Oc
08-18-2015, 10:13 PM
I admit that I am relatively new to the NC kokanee scene but I have been fishing for them ~6 yrs. now. I have seen in that short a period of time a very noticeable increase in the number of folks fishing for them and it concerns me. 6 years ago I noted 2 boats fishing for them in an entire week. This past month there were as many as 6 on a single weekend day and as many as 4-5 on each of the weekdays. I know someone in the NCWC and asked a few questions about the fishery that they did not know the answers to and said they'd pass it along. Within the week I had calls from 2 different people within the NCWC that did. The discussions were interesting and informative...and might surprise you. It did me, anyway. First, although they understand what a unique fishery it is for NC they are not very concerned about it and monitor it in an extremely limited fashion. Funding is only a part of the problem. They consider kokanee to be "exotics", i.e a non-native species, and therefore their continued existence in NC has a very low priority. The persistence of the population since stocking was discontinued 50 yrs ago is seen as little more than a aberration and a curiosity. We discussed changing that stance and, perhaps, trying to improve the fishery by considering many variables including seasons, tighter limits or even becoming hatchery supported like many of the western lakes. Little money and low interest makes that unlikely. The low nutrient level of the lake is suspected of being a significant limiting factor to growth/size and carrying capacity of the lake's population, in any case, but they don't know for sure. They have absolutely no idea what the population is, what the annual take is or what kind of pressure it can stand. The limit was set many years ago and somewhat arbitrarily. Catch & release mortality of the smaller fish is unknown, but suspected of being very high in the summer months, like stripers. Fishing pressure's effect on the breeding population has never been assessed. In fact, they have never performed an Oct. spawning adult count since the spawning area "is in a private section of the river", i.e The Rainbow Springs Club. NCWC doesn't know if its 20, 200 or 2000, though I would suspect its in the low end. The Club may have counts and records of such but the NCWC has never asked them for data nor to collect data for them. The NCWC is reluctant to ask for permission to access club property for information gathering purposes and their manpower is limited anyway and almost exclusively spent on assessing trout populations. The NCWC suspects the Kokanee population is quite small since fishing success is erratic, sonar recordings are sporadic and limited gill-netting, yes...gill-netting, across the river in the Oct. spawning season in years past has netted as few as 0 on some days and the most they could recall was a 5 fish day. Several of you have been at this a much longer time (Ron, Mark, Fred, Dale & others) and if you get a chance to speak with either Doug Besler or Powell Wheeler, (or anyone else) let them know your thoughts and concerns. It would be a real tragedy to see this unique fishery decline or disappear. The NCWC's stance at this time would be to NOT replace it if it does. Just my 2 cents. Any comments or info appreciated.

trollmonkey
08-18-2015, 11:45 PM
Hi Doc, I Hear you. An early attempt to assess the success of the initial stockings concluded the effort was a failure. Obviously that was wrong ,but the pressure has increased tremendously. 7 or 8 years back we would make two or three trips a summer and would 7 to 14 a trip. It was an unbelievable fishery for NC ,I've told Powell he has a world class kokanee fishery in his district. I think he might be willing to do more for it but I believe the anti exotic trend in is strong at higher levels in the NCWRC, the funny thing is that they fill many inland lakes with stripers(even put them in Hiwassee). Browns and rainbows are exotics as well,I dearly love both and hope we always have them. I would love to see kokes stocked in several small Jackson Co lakes where I think they would do well,judging by the amounts of plankton in the stomachs of trout we catch.Between Ron and myself we've given over a hundred kokanee heads to Amanda at the NCWRC to read the otoliths for age and growth data. Thus far I don't think they've done a lot with them. I have mixed feelings about my part in drawing attention to them . Since the 60's they have not been a secret ,but only recently does it seem the pressure has ratcheted up.Maybe if the fishing declines folks will slack off and the kokes will build back up. I am hoping there are plenty in the the lake but they just have wised up to the lures they're seeing. The last few summers Ron has done very well usually for a several week period, I got out after this and have struggled. Might be the blazing hot weather we've had in the mountains the last few summers or increased pressure.I think some management changes might help but not many people got near their limits.Maybe a rod limit would help? Unfortunately kokes are not an easy fish to release "unharmed",so I'm sure release mortality is high. The folks at the NCWRC I've met are dedicated and hard working ,and have some great cold water projects going on,but us koke guys probably have to depend on the kokes to keep it going . Doc we marked quite a few fish I'm fairly sure were kokes ,they would check out my gear then drift away. Maybe they are seeing too many koke rigs swim by?

rgarbar
08-19-2015, 08:27 PM
Doc

Thanks for the report and your efforts. IMHO I feel kokanee are fairly abundant at Nantahala. I mark them all the time but the don't always bite. In their portion of the water column they have few enemies(no lake trout(Macks) pike, big brown trout etc.. I have never caught a rainbow trout at Nantahala with a young salmon in its stomach. It is also said there is additional spawning in several other of Nantahala's tributaries. Yes it seems more folks are fishing for them these days but a lot of folks are not catching them. Even some of the guides do not fair well and ask me questions. Some years are better than others, probably because of low water levels especially when Duke drops the water level more than normal to make repairs to the dam, floodgates etc. This was a good year. As I mentioned in the past mid May through Mid July have been the most productive for me. I agree the limit should be dropped to five. Also the spawning fish should be given more protection(close the season September 15th for example). I would also give the spawning fish more protection from folks who try to foul hook them/net them as they migrate up the river. Mark thanks for the info on Cheoah!

1bigfish
12-30-2015, 11:17 PM
Dr. OC, Ron & Mark,

The salmon have been there a long time. I worried when I did not see them spawn, worried about the lake level and about the fishing pressure. The salmon are still there. Powell Wheeler told me he would like to do some observation of the spawn and testing. If you send your email address to: fishnantahala@aol.com ,
I will send you a incredible video of salmon spawning in the river.

Happy new year,
Fred

rgarbar
12-31-2015, 09:14 AM
Doc, Mark and Fred

An interesting article from 1960 in North Carolina Wildlife. http://digital.ncdcr.gov/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p16062coll4/id/5898/rec/2

Look at page 19.

Hope to see you all next spring! My Kokanee libido is starting to twitch!

Ron

richienc
01-10-2016, 06:41 AM
Just a note: Now is the perfect time to make recommendations. The NCWRC is taking comments on it's site and upcoming meetings. These are proposals for the coming years regulation changes, etc......... Great opportunity to make suggestions to them. Here's the link: https://ncpaws.org/PAWS/WRC/PublicComments/PublicEntry/PublicComments.aspx

smokysteelhead
01-15-2016, 01:30 PM
I do wish they would manage the kokanee and steelhead.

richienc
01-15-2016, 01:38 PM
I'm with ya. I did go on and comment that I would like to see management of Kokanee and even see them consider stocking in other area lakes. Some of the more experienced fishermen could likely make better recommendation to them......

smokysteelhead
01-18-2016, 03:15 PM
I'll send them some comments.

rgarbar
01-18-2016, 06:38 PM
I'm with ya. I did go on and comment that I would like to see management of Kokanee and even see them consider stocking in other area lakes. Some of the more experienced fishermen could likely make better recommendation to them......

I wrote and asked them to consider

1. Dropping the daily kokanee limit from 7 to 5
2. Obtaining breeding stock from the Nantahala Lake fish to be raised to be introduced to other lakes Like Calderwood, Fontana, wolf Creek and Bear creek Lakes.
3. Closing the Kokanee seasons October 1st through December 1st to allow the Kokanee to spawn.
4. To make it illegal to snag or net the spawning Kokanee,

richienc
01-19-2016, 06:07 AM
That sounds great............ and very similar to what I commented. I didn't think about the seasons and I also listed Thorpe (Glenville) Lake as another option. Hopefully they'll as least consider it........

smokysteelhead
01-28-2016, 07:18 PM
Got a reply back that the NCWRC basically considers steelhead separate from rainbow trout.

richienc
01-28-2016, 08:42 PM
Got a reply back that the NCWRC basically considers steelhead separate from rainbow trout.

I had been told that, but it's good to know for sure!

smokysteelhead
01-29-2016, 04:57 PM
Makes no sense but I guess they are going to ignore trout and kokanee fisherman.

richienc
01-30-2016, 02:37 PM
Makes no sense but I guess they are going to ignore trout and kokanee fisherman.

Guess, but they really never expected the Kokes to survive as well as they have......

smokysteelhead
03-11-2016, 02:50 PM
Any replies on kokanee from the NCWRC?

richienc
03-12-2016, 06:08 AM
Any replies on kokanee from the NCWRC?

I haven't heard anything - not sure if they will contact anyone individually or just discuss it in their meeting for consideration.

rgarbar
03-12-2016, 11:27 AM
Do not expect anything from NCWRC. Myself and Trollmonkey have been supplying our Kokanee and trout heads to NCWRC in place of gill netting, with fish length, day fish was caught and sex for 4 or 5 years. We have never heard a thing about the kokes or trout. This season I will return the heads to their native place.

richienc
03-17-2016, 06:25 AM
Do not expect anything from NCWRC. Myself and Trollmonkey have been supplying our Kokanee and trout heads to NCWRC in place of gill netting, with fish length, day fish was caught and sex for 4 or 5 years. We have never heard a thing about the kokes or trout. This season I will return the heads to their native place.

You'd think they'd at least give some feedback............. I can't blame ya for not continuing on with no updates from them!