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Full_Monte
01-02-2010, 10:43 AM
I know you guys all have your wiring well-organized, but I confess to being less organized than I would like. I have an aluminum boat with no "double walls" to hide wires in. My use of wires started out simple and it has grown more complicated due to the addition of electrical items. The boat has a tiller engine and can ride wet when the weather kicks up the wave action. I hide my fuses in an aluminum box tucked under the rear "splash pan" that keeps stern waves from swamping the boat. It has worked OK, but I need to start over. I need to mount some wires on the inside of the boat bulkheads without putting holes in the boat for wire holders. Right now, I'm using "monkey dung" type tape to do this, but this stuff keeps falling off in cold temperatures. Here is the list of electrical items I have on the boat:

Bilge pump and switch
Bow light and switch
Two Scotty electric downriggers. (Main wires are well-hidden under floorboards)
Lowrance HDS7 fishfinder
cigarette lighter socket for large light
Black Box and wiring to each downrigger
Possible addition of an electric temperature probe on the downrigger.

I'd appreciate any ideas from you guys that would help me organize all of this.

Thanks!

Kokaholic
01-02-2010, 11:09 AM
WOW, Well io can throw a few ideas out. I would look at using some kind of flex hosing in a larger diameter that you can run all your wires through. This could be then secured to or along the bottom of your boat with another idea that comes to mind from another member. I would look at also applying shrink tube to many of your connections to assist with water proof ing in your boat.

I would also get a label maker and label what lines ar what. If you later have a problem, it will help speed up identifying what wire is for what item.

I will keep thinking. Kinda hard when you cannot see the issues right in front of you

Bduck
01-02-2010, 11:46 AM
I'm with Kokaholic. Flexible tubing is good to run most of your wires thru. I like using dielectric silicone on all my electrical connections as a corrosion preventive measure. Sometimes components can run electrical interference on such items as your fishfinder. Consult your FF installation manual and any other manuals just in case.

twisted lines
01-02-2010, 12:39 PM
Don't know where you ended up putting the battery But very near that is where I would put the marine Fues block in a large enough box for the switches, Cigar lighter ect and that could be mounted on the rear of the middle seat where you have easy accs to it, but its out of your way, there is a chime on both sides of my gregor that worked well for me. I would look at the sprinkler tubing and see if it would fit through the seats / Chime space and if all the wires you intend to use will fit.

SmokeOnTheWater
01-02-2010, 11:00 PM
Monte, I'm with Twisted lines on this dilema. I used PVC as a conduit for my electrical wiring although I didn't have near the accessories you have. By the picture in you avatar, see if you can find PVC (irrigation or electrical) that would fit on the inside of your hull at the chine or splash rail to run the conduit. On my old boat, the seats bridged this channel and there were multiple stiffeners that also bridged the same way as the seats. This bridging, in itself, held the conduit in place without the need for additional fasteners and being rigid helped as well. It's also an inexpensive approach if you can get it to work for you. I found that irrigation PVC offers a diversity of fittings, many more than electrical PVC. One more hint, don't glue any of the connections unless you absolutely have to. This allows for easy adjustment as future needs dictate.

Full_Monte
01-03-2010, 01:34 PM
I thank you for your ideas!

My battery is in the stern on the floorboard. I've been thinking about moving it forward to the bow, but that's a long run for an electric start motor, so I continue to mentally wrestle with that one. I guess the key would be to decide where to put the battery, because the fuse box needs to be very close to it.

Here's a photo of the fuse box (aluminum) and battery box in the stern taken when I was mounting my downriggers to the bench seats. The seat is off, so don't let that confuse you. It does show a chine where I can try the PVC idea.

http://kokaneefishingforum.com/fishing-forums/picture.php?pictureid=819&albumid=38&dl=1241324234

justfish
01-03-2010, 08:02 PM
Monte; putting the battery up front should not be a problem if you use welding cable . almost no amp drop in over 20ft the battery in my race car is in the back and I have no problem starting it plus running eletric fuel pump,fan and water pump PVC should work great u can use eposy putty to hold it in place; hope that hepls

Kokaholic
01-03-2010, 11:41 PM
Monte,

Justfish is pretty knowledgeable with Motors and mechanical issues. He does race like he says as does his family. Pick his brain a little!worthy12

Full_Monte
01-04-2010, 02:54 AM
Monte; putting the battery up front should not be a problem if you use welding cable . almost no amp drop in over 20ft the battery in my race car is in the back and I have no problem starting it plus running eletric fuel pump,fan and water pump PVC should work great u can use eposy putty to hold it in place; hope that hepls

Thanks! I like the idea of the welding cable.

One thought I had about moving the battery forward is that if I move it all the way to the bow, that's where the battery will take the most pounding in rough weather. The stern hardly takes any pounding. Is it possible that the plates inside the battery could become dislodged if I put it in the bow? Would up-and-down motion of the battery cause acid to leak out of the battery vent holes?

justfish
01-04-2010, 09:00 AM
Monty; I have a battrey in both the front and rear of my boat and have had no problem with the pounding in ruff water just make sure it tight in place

Bduck
01-04-2010, 09:11 AM
I've never like putting lead acid batteries in a position where they would get jarred around and would start leaking. When my battery died finally, I replaced it with a gel. These batteries allows you to mount it in any position, on end, sides, and it can take the beating. The down side is they cost alot of $$$$. But in the long run, one of best investments I've made. I purchased mine at Sears. They always have sales going on and they back their products. Mines been installed 2yrs now with no issues.

Kokaholic
01-04-2010, 11:03 AM
One of local flaming gorge guides keeps his batteries in ther front of his boat. its a 20' aluminum boat, has no problems with his batteries. and he is on the water every day. He uses the Walmart brand.

SilverBullets
01-04-2010, 12:06 PM
I have a battery up front for the electric on the bow and another one in back for the main motor/fish finder/ black box, and installed a duel battery charger up front under the bow. Everything is secured down and have had no problems, but then again I'm not normally out in rough water.

Full_Monte
01-05-2010, 10:43 AM
Everything is secured down and have had no problems, but then again I'm not normally out in rough water.

Is that because you start out with three inches of freeboard due to the 500 lbs of tackle that you carry?laugh hystthumbsup

Full_Monte
02-16-2010, 01:32 PM
Just checked fitting 1/2 inch PVC into the chines. It fits the chines nicely, but won't fit where the seats' stiffeners meet the chines. I hate to run the wires in the chines without encasing them in some kind of conduit. I don't think we have any of that new plastic CPVC pipe in our area that I could check. That's the kind that can carry hot water as well as cold.

skookum9
02-16-2010, 05:00 PM
I like the idea of the PVC and it is what I would use. You are right that CPVC is the stuff made for hot and cold water but, I strongly recommend the gray PVC that is made for electrical conduit since it is more UV resistant. Sunlight kills PVC but this gray stuff seems to hold up the best. I use it all the time in my work since I am an electrician. I would be concerned about 1/2" being large enough to run your cables through and would be inclined to try to make 3/4" work instead. I don't know exactly what you are running into trying to make it fit down the length of your boat but I will tell you that using PVC will make things easier for you. A simple hair dryer, or better yet a heat gun, applied correctly will soften the conduit enough so you can shape it to fit through even the more difficult places. Be careful so you don't burn or char the pipe but really all you need is a little patience and a pair of leather gloves.

Just a quick note on the welding cable idea. I agree that welding cable or locomotive cable is great material for battery leads. But, I would recommend spending the extra money on a marine version of this because it is plated copper. I believe the plating is nickle but I'm not certain on this. This plating will help to protect against corrosion that will eventually cause you some frustrations later on down the road. It is more expensive but well worth it. It should be available at any marine repair, supply or possibly even sales outlet. I personally think that batteries are almost always better in the bow. The one exception is that rough water can cause the cells in the battery to fail if you are trying to "beat feet" across the water.

Good luck to you on this and let us know how things worked out for you. PVC really is easy to work into a wide variety of shapes and is a great protector of your wires.

SuperD
02-16-2010, 05:12 PM
Monte, it looks like you have a floor. Why aren't you just running stuff under the floor boards?

Full_Monte
02-16-2010, 06:18 PM
Yes, I have a floor that I put into the boat. It would be possible to run wires under the floorboards without plastic conduit. I thought it would be better to run them in the chines because they'd be out of the bilge. I currently have my bow light wires installed under the floorboards and also the downrigger wires. The boat doesn't leak, but if it does get wet, the water would be on the wires.

clamkin
02-22-2010, 11:49 PM
Monte, don't know how long the battery leads are that you'll end up running, but I'll offer this bit of advise:

Don't let the power lead run any significant distance without a fuseable link or a circuit breaker. In fact, one of the cooler things I discovered recently was the power center battery box that Minn Kota offers. It's a 27 series box, so I decided against, plus the fact that it's $70 retail. If you look around on the net, you'll see enough pictures of it that you can duplicate the same thing for 1/4 the price and that includes a push button circuit breaker for protection. I did the same thing on a 24 series box. Easy to drill a couple of holes for 1/4-20 screws for external posts. Get a Sea Dog 30A push button breaker and mount it under the lid with the reset button protruding for outside access.

Let me tell you why I strongly advocate for this. I added a second battery to my boat and the only logical location it would fit is behind a panel in the rear corner port side that was holding flotation foam. It's tied to the engine and the main battery through a 3 way Perko I installed. To remove this back panel, you have to pull up the rear most floor panel. Battery has been in there in a battery box for a year, so figured it was time to pull it out and check the water. No biggie, right? It has a couple of less than 3' leads that go to a fuseblock and everything is powered through that. Well, my brother in law is putting the panel back in with the 2 leads hooked up to the battery and the hot lead taped up pretty good. Remember, can't access it after the panel is installed. So when he's pushing the panel back in place(which is tightly fitted) it somehow pinched the hot and gnd lead on a battery that we had just fully charged. Let me tell ya, cable insulation and wire loom can make an incredible amount of smoke and fire in a matter of a couple of seconds. :eek:

If he hadn't moved quickly to yank the panel away and use a screwdriver to separate the leads, could have been messy. This is the rear corner of the boat with a fuel filler line and vent tubes in it. Could have been a disaster and all that from a pretty short run of battery cable.

So don't screw around. Protect anything over a few inches with some type of breakable link(fuseable or breaker). I was never totally comfortable when I first put that in there, but I guarantee you it didn't go back together without a complete re-engineering after that incident. I cut the panel in half and used a West Marine latch for a clean install and better access to the battery. Reworked the battery box itself to the same config as the Minn Kota, so no unprotected hot lead even gets outside of the battery box. Two other runs of wire I put in the boat, including one I ran to a fuse block under the dash also got resettable circuit breakers mounted immediately next to their source battery. There's also a breaker just after the Perko in the run that goes between the batteries. You can get some pretty good ones(car stereo style) for cheap on Ebay. Less than $10 for a 40A breaker. Search for a seller by the name of uneeksupply. I used the same style to isloate my 6V trolling motor batteries upfront when I installed that a couple of years ago(which was done correctly the first time!). A ton cheaper than those $60 breakers they sell.

Do it right and sleep better at night. An electrical fire in the driveway is bad enough. Have that happen on the water and you could be going for a swim while you watch your boat and gear turn into a Roman Candle.

EDIT: Here's a picture on Amazon that shows the underside of the Minn Kota power center box lid so you can see how it's wired:

http://tinyurl.com/y92mnvt

I didn't need the meter or the additional power outlet circuit, so mine is wired simpler than that. West Marine can help you with some of the small parts like insulating rubber covers for the posts on the outside of the box.

Full_Monte
02-23-2010, 06:22 PM
Monte, don't know how long the battery leads are that you'll end up running, but I'll offer this bit of advise:

Don't let the power lead run any significant distance without a fuseable link or a circuit breaker. In fact, one of the cooler things I discovered recently was the power center battery box that Minn Kota offers. It's a 27 series box, so I decided against, plus the fact that it's $70 retail. If you look around on the net, you'll see enough pictures of it that you can duplicate the same thing for 1/4 the price and that includes a push button circuit breaker for protection. I did the same thing on a 24 series box. Easy to drill a couple of holes for 1/4-20 screws for external posts. Get a Sea Dog 30A push button breaker and mount it under the lid with the reset button protruding for outside access.

Let me tell you why I strongly advocate for this. I added a second battery to my boat and the only logical location it would fit is behind a panel in the rear corner port side that was holding flotation foam. It's tied to the engine and the main battery through a 3 way Perko I installed. To remove this back panel, you have to pull up the rear most floor panel. Battery has been in there in a battery box for a year, so figured it was time to pull it out and check the water. No biggie, right? It has a couple of less than 3' leads that go to a fuseblock and everything is powered through that. Well, my brother in law is putting the panel back in with the 2 leads hooked up to the battery and the hot lead taped up pretty good. Remember, can't access it after the panel is installed. So when he's pushing the panel back in place(which is tightly fitted) it somehow pinched the hot and gnd lead on a battery that we had just fully charged. Let me tell ya, cable insulation and wire loom can make an incredible amount of smoke and fire in a matter of a couple of seconds. :eek:

If he hadn't moved quickly to yank the panel away and use a screwdriver to separate the leads, could have been messy. This is the rear corner of the boat with a fuel filler line and vent tubes in it. Could have been a disaster and all that from a pretty short run of battery cable.

So don't screw around. Protect anything over a few inches with some type of breakable link(fuseable or breaker). I was never totally comfortable when I first put that in there, but I guarantee you it didn't go back together without a complete re-engineering after that incident. I cut the panel in half and used a West Marine latch for a clean install and better access to the battery. Reworked the battery box itself to the same config as the Minn Kota, so no unprotected hot lead even gets outside of the battery box. Two other runs of wire I put in the boat, including one I ran to a fuse block under the dash also got resettable circuit breakers mounted immediately next to their source battery. There's also a breaker just after the Perko in the run that goes between the batteries. You can get some pretty good ones(car stereo style) for cheap on Ebay. Less than $10 for a 40A breaker. Search for a seller by the name of uneeksupply. I used the same style to isloate my 6V trolling motor batteries upfront when I installed that a couple of years ago(which was done correctly the first time!). A ton cheaper than those $60 breakers they sell.

Do it right and sleep better at night. An electrical fire in the driveway is bad enough. Have that happen on the water and you could be going for a swim while you watch your boat and gear turn into a Roman Candle.

EDIT: Here's a picture on Amazon that shows the underside of the Minn Kota power center box lid so you can see how it's wired:

http://tinyurl.com/y92mnvt

I didn't need the meter or the additional power outlet circuit, so mine is wired simpler than that. West Marine can help you with some of the small parts like insulating rubber covers for the posts on the outside of the box.

You know, Clamkin, that's pretty smart thinking. I admire you for that. I've been wrestling with this wiring problem in my mind now for awhile, and I hadn't thought of protecting the main power lines going from the bow battery to the stern. Great idea! Since I only have one battery, I'm also wondering what size wire I need to start my 25hp Yamaha 2-stroke. I can't find anywhere what amount of current it draws on startup. Thanks again for the tip.

Full_Monte
05-31-2010, 11:03 AM
Well, it turns out my intended "battery locker" in the bow is too small for the battery.101nopity101101bomb101 Now I'm thinking that my "simple" project is going to turn into a major boat redesign. I'd have to weld a deck plate across the bow gunnels and create a new storage locker/seat combo that would allow the moving of the battery. It's back to the drawing board for me....for now. 101bomb101 I will use all your great advice then. Thank you!

Bduck
05-31-2010, 12:46 PM
Well, there's always a bigger boat. 101surrender101

lowe1648mt
05-31-2010, 02:54 PM
If You end up putting your battery fwd and run the wiring aft,my suggestion is that too much is never enough. I believe in over kill. the 25 hp motor you have probabily has size 6 or size 4 wire at the max. The longer the wire run, thmore you need to increase the size to reduce resistance. Size 2 wire (marine grade) would most likley work well in your size boat.
As to pro tecting the wires, I would runn them under the floor, and runn all neg wires in a 5/8 water hose (1 piece) front to rear , and same for the pos lead. fuses or breakers are a good thing. If your 25 hp puts out current see in it has a fuse on that end also. If you secure the water hoses with zip ties they won't chafe and will protect the wires fron water and shorts.

Full_Monte
07-02-2010, 05:46 AM
If You end up putting your battery fwd and run the wiring aft,my suggestion is that too much is never enough. I believe in over kill. the 25 hp motor you have probabily has size 6 or size 4 wire at the max. The longer the wire run, thmore you need to increase the size to reduce resistance. Size 2 wire (marine grade) would most likley work well in your size boat.
As to pro tecting the wires, I would runn them under the floor, and runn all neg wires in a 5/8 water hose (1 piece) front to rear , and same for the pos lead. fuses or breakers are a good thing. If your 25 hp puts out current see in it has a fuse on that end also. If you secure the water hoses with zip ties they won't chafe and will protect the wires fron water and shorts.

Excellent idea about using water hose! Thanks!

lowe1648mt
07-02-2010, 10:37 PM
If you have trouble getting the wire through the hose. spray some wd40 on the wire. to pull wire through the hose , I use an electricians snake . home depot- 15.00. Any other questions, I will be happy to offer an idea, maybe not the best one , but it will be one that works for me. I have 34 years exp. rigging boats of all sizes and types.

Torres
08-21-2010, 06:18 PM
Good idea with the waterhose Lowe1648mt. (why didn't I think of that??)

Also look into the flexible plastic conduit that's installed under the hood in our vehicles.

Spliced down the whole length of conduit for easy installation.

Another thought, if you aren't planning on running the conduit under the floor boards and are afraid of screwing into the hull i'm sure some marine grade epoxy would keep the clamps secure to the hull.

Full_Monte
08-22-2010, 09:36 AM
Yes, thank you! I've received a number of good ideas on this thread. I decided to wait until winter, when I don't fish for kokes, and will tear everything apart then. I've been buying parts for the conversion, too. It's quite a job...even on a smaller boat. Maybe even tougher than on a big boat because it's more difficult to hide everything.

SeaDog
08-22-2010, 10:59 AM
Hi Monte!

What? You don't ice fish for Kokes?
We do here in Ct. -> Have to fish deep though!

SeaDog

Full_Monte
08-22-2010, 12:18 PM
No, I don't...have never ice-fished. It might be fun, just never knew anyone that would show me the ropes. With my luck, I'd probably fall in...