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Full_Monte
02-18-2009, 09:49 PM
Hi Guys,

I was looking around on the net and found this article, which describes the incredibly delicate ecosystem that those Flaming Gorge Kokes live in. It looks like there are a lot of challenges to their survival. Read this if you haven't already.

http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/Fish/Newsletters/GreenRiver/GR_Newsletter_2008.pdf

HiTechKoke
02-18-2009, 10:00 PM
Great article Monte. It seems we should all do our part and get some Burbot fishing in out there in our off hours for Kokanee.

Propnut69
02-18-2009, 11:30 PM
Having the gorge right out my backdoor.The thought of what the burbot can do to this fishery scares the crap of of me. Just like the article said if left unchecked it wont be long before the burbot will have taken over the lake. On a bright note this year I have noticed a great interest in catching this critters. It seems like the fisherman from both Utah and Wyoming have really stepped up to met the challenge of catching as many of these slimers as possible. It going to be interesting to see what affect the burbot have had on the kokanee population.Talking to one of my sources that lives in Manila.They are catching plenty of kokes,but nothing with any size ,that buy it's self is a good sign.

Full_Monte
02-19-2009, 10:35 AM
Did you read the part about the quagga mussels? What I got from it is that they are plankton feeders. So are the Kokanee. With the possibility of the mussels taking over the lake, they will compete directly with the Kokes for food.
Doesn't sound good for the kokes to me.

SuperD
02-19-2009, 11:12 AM
I was real excited about the Tiger Trout article and hope it goes a long way to solve the problem and create a another great fish in the fishery.

Bduck
02-19-2009, 01:32 PM
Good article FM. Unless I have missed it, does anyone know where the Burbot originate from? I have deep sea fished for Ling Cod off the coast of Calif. But thats the salt water variety. According to WGFD they want all burbot out of there waters west of the continental divide. Unfortunately we are going to have 'Bucket Biologists' that want to devastate some of this countries premiere fisheries. I like some of the ideas of crossing some trout species to get a cleanup hitter for these burbot. Hopefully we don't get carried away with playing god on cross breeding.

Full_Monte
02-19-2009, 02:49 PM
Here's an article on Burbot by the Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game. It's widespread in Alaska, though the other article said it was introduced illegally by unknown parties into the Gorge area.

http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/notebook/fish/burbot.php

Apparently, it is a good-eating fish. Sounds like you clean it like a catfish.
I presume, that like a ling cod, it is an ambush hunter. Is there a limit on burbot at the Gorge?

SuperD
02-19-2009, 03:00 PM
And do burbot hit koke lures, bait? Maybe there is BFF (Burbot fishing forum) out there somewhere.

Bduck
02-19-2009, 03:01 PM
At Flaming Gorge there is no limit. When you catch them, you have to kill them. No release. Thats on the Utah side. I beleive its the same on the Wyoming side.

Bduck
02-19-2009, 03:03 PM
And do burbot hit koke lures, bait? Maybe there is BFF (Burbot fishing forum) out there somewhere. I haven't heard of one yet.

Full_Monte
02-19-2009, 03:17 PM
I'm guessing they are a bottom fish and lunge at passing kokes from a camouflaged position.

SuperD
02-19-2009, 03:28 PM
Everything you might want to know about Burbot.

Burbot are a strange looking fish (borderline repulsive) that’s extra slimy to the touch, but surprisingly excellent tasting. They’re found on the bottom of deep lakes and rivers and- even though they look like they eat something vile such as carcasses or algae- are actually voracious predators of other fish. Burbot are also called eelpout, ling, lingcod, loache, methyl, lush, gudgeon, mud-blower, cusk, mother eel, or lawyer fish. They are Alaska’s only sport fish species that resembles catfish throughout the Lower 48.

Appearance

Most of a burbot’s body is a dark greenish-yellow and marked with blotches of similar color. They also have an elongated shape with unusually long dorsal and anal fins that are nearly half its body length. A single, permanent barbel hangs from the chin and two smaller ones protrude from the nostrils. Burbot appear to have slick, slimy skin void of scales, however, their scales are tiny and imbedded.

Location

Burbot live only in freshwater and dwell in the deeper water of lakes and rivers throughout Alaska; the only exception being the Aleutians and Southeast. In large lakes, biologists have found burbot at depths of 698 feet. In winter, the deeper water becomes oxygen depleted and burbot move to shallower water in search of food. In summer, the fish may move into shallower water at night to search for prey.

Diet

Burbot eat mostly only other fish; however, they will also consume aquatic insects, plankton, crustaceans and fish eggs. Juveniles under five years old will mainly eat insects and other invertebrates until they are large enough to be successful predators. Some populations eat a diet of 90% fish and feast on a variety of 20 different species.

Angling Method

Burbot prefer cold, deep water. For this reason, lakes and rivers are most productive when they are frozen. Burbot will seek shallower water in the winter because the deeper water becomes oxygen depleted and offers less food. Most will move into water 25 feet deep or less; making them perfect for ice fishing. Standard ice fishing poles, setlines or tip-ups rigged with large hooks and bait works the best. Also, since you need to fish near the bottom, weights should be added about 18 to 24 inches above the bait. Cut herring, chicken livers or any type of meat that’s stinky will attract a hungry burbot. In the summer, the same setup and bait works, but you will be more successful in deeper water.

Life History

Spawning starts under the ice in December and ends in mid-April. Interior populations aren’t mature until about the age of seven, while more southern populations are capable between two and four years old. Spawning sites are usually shallow and are have stone or gravel bottoms. Breeding takes place at night and starts when a group of burbot (up to a dozen) meet and group closely together. The females that are ready to release eggs, and the males that are ready to fertilize them, press toward the middle of the crowd. The eggs will rest on the bottom until hatching between 30 and 71 days later (depending on water temperature; the colder, the slower).

Newly hatched burbot are only about .3 centimeters long, are colorless, transparent and without a yolk sac. They are unrecognizable as a burbot until they are 1 centimeter long, at which time they will have developed their fins and trademark chin barbel. Many populations will reach this length by early summer. Typically, burbot living in the northern-half of the state will grow slower and live longer than those in southern regions. By the age of 10 the average burbot will be about 24 inches in length. Most individuals do not live beyond the age of 15, at which time they average 28 inches. On an exciting angling note, biologists have observed burbot in Alaska as large as 74 pounds.

Fish Alaska Magazine

Kokaholic
02-19-2009, 11:54 PM
I was told that the Wyoming game and fish first introduced the Burbot into Wyoming ACCIDENTALLY when they dumped them into The BIG Sandy resivour thinking that they were catfish. The then worked there way down into the green and into the gorge. By the time they realized that they were not cats and that they wee burbot, it was to late!crymeariver

Propnut69
02-19-2009, 11:59 PM
Since the burbot has raised it's ugly head in the gorge. There have been several theories about how they got there. One theory is that the Wyo G&F accidentally planted burbot in the big sandy reivior. Then the burbot migrated from the big sandy to the green river. Then on down to the gorge. That is one theory.

Another theory is that "bucket biologists" planted burbot in the surge ponds at the Jim Bridger power plant,that drains into the gorge. I have never heard a official reason as to why they are there.

"By the age of 10 the average burbot will be about 24 inches in length. Most individuals do not live beyond the age of 15, at which time they average 28 inches. " This quote is from the article,and it shows just how fast the burbot in the gorge are growing. There have been many reports on other websites about anglers catching lots of burbot over 24 inches.

The burbot in the gorge have been in there, fewer then ten years. They having been feeding like a fat kid on a big mac. Fisherman have reported catching burbot 32-36 inches long ,and as big around as your arm from Fontenelle. They have been in Fontenelle less time then they have been in the gorge.How they got there really isn't the question now.

The question is what effect will they have on the gorge? and how will the burbot be controlled? I hope that the measures that both Utah and Wyoming are taking to control the burbot, will have a positive affect.

SuperD asked, "And do burbot hit koke lures, bait? Maybe there is BFF (Burbot fishing forum) out there somewhere. " I have never heard of anyone catching a burbot while fishing for kokes. Burbot are basically bottom dwellers,and like to feed and spawn in the shallows .

Propnut69
02-20-2009, 12:01 AM
I was told that the Wyoming game and fish first introduced the Burbot into Wyoming ACCIDENTALLY when they dumped them into The BIG Sandy resivour thinking that they were catfish. The then worked there way down into the green and into the gorge. By the time they realized that they were not cats and that they wee burbot, it was to late!crymeariver

You know if I would have read this post first ,it would of saved me a lot of typinglaugh hyst

Petty4life
02-20-2009, 07:53 AM
SuperD asked, "And do burbot hit koke lures, bait? " I have never heard of anyone catching a burbot while fishing for kokes. Burbot are basically bottom dwellers,and like to feed and spawn in the shallows .


I talked to one of our KFF members (Jedburton) last year that was trolling for kokes in 120ft of water and had his lure at 60ft and caught a burbottooexcited

Propnut69
02-20-2009, 01:17 PM
I talked to one of our KFF members (Jedburton) last year that was trolling for kokes in 120ft of water and had his lure at 60ft and caught a burbottooexcited

wow,well like anything else there is always the exception to the rule.

Full_Monte
02-20-2009, 01:19 PM
This reminds me of trolling for king salmon in mid-water and hooking Halibut.
Commercial fishermen in Alaska have this happen all the time. While Halibut are mostly found on the bottom, they occasionally go up into the water column.

Stanson
02-21-2009, 07:44 PM
Maybe they can have a burbot reward fee for everone caught the fish and game will give you a dollar maybe that would get peoples attention on the burbot otherwise forget it they will be around for a long time until something else kills them off like another preditor that would feed on them.
If they are good to eat maybe they can be marketed and sold

the bottom line is once you introduce something its going to be very hard to get rid of it. just like the mussel problem showing up in lakes its the careless acts of others. with all the people that like to fish the gorge its a wonder that the gorge dosent have a mussel problem as well.

In california they are having suprise inspection on your boat if its been in in other lakes like lake meed and others that have the mussel problems you can not launch your boat you have have it steam cleaned and set out in the sun to dry out for at least five days and your boat can not have anywater in it or you well be told you can not launch. and even with that you will always find some trying to get around the law

Bduck
02-21-2009, 08:32 PM
DNR in Utah planted Tiger trout in the gorge to help control the burbot. But I think you are right Stanson. Those little bastards are in there to stay.

Propnut69
02-22-2009, 03:20 PM
"with all the people that like to fish the gorge its a wonder that the gorge doesn't have a mussel problem as well."

This is something that I and a few other local fisherman,have been hounding the forest service about. All it takes is one boat with mussels to infect the gorge . The forest service needs to implement a inspection program at all the popular ramps on the gorge,from the first of may til the end of Sept. We keep hearing it a money issue with the forest service. Then that raises the question ,how much money will it take to get rid of the mussel's after they are in the gorge.I wish the forest service would take a progressive approach instead of a reactionary approach.

SmokeOnTheWater
04-05-2009, 10:33 PM
I don't know about anyone else that frequents the Gorge but I was getting questioned everytime I went to the ramp at Lucerne last year. Not only did I have to complete a questionaire each time but on several occasions had lengthy discussions with the young biologists when I took my boat out.

I was going to take my boat to Lake Mead at the end of the month but a good friend of mine reminded me about the Quaga & Zebra Muscle problem down there. I'll do my part and leave my boat at home rather than taking any risk at transporting a hitchhiker to our home fisheries.

Any of you out there from infested waters, please do everyone a favor and have you boat, motor, livewells, bilge and trailer professionally cleaned!

Kokanee Killer
04-05-2009, 10:37 PM
great advice sotw we have a zebra mussel problem here back east and we do not need those mussels filtering all the plankton, then what,,,, no kokes.

FISH
04-06-2009, 09:14 PM
if all you koke heads want to help out on the ling do it anchor up off a rocky point and do your part to get rid of them you can catch them all yr at fg and thay are great on the table its not hard and could pass a night in a hurry do your part kill'em all i like the dollor a burbot lol i would be set.ash

Kokaholic
04-06-2009, 11:32 PM
I figure you would have a couple grand in your pocket right now at that rate Ash. LMAO

Ryno
04-09-2009, 10:03 AM
the bottom line is once you introduce something its going to be very hard to get rid of it. just like the mussel problem showing up in lakes its the careless acts of others. with all the people that like to fish the gorge its a wonder that the gorge dosent have a mussel problem as well.

You're exactly right. Species that are new to an ecosystem, tend to overexploit some resource, hence the "burbot-boom" we're seeing right now. This is the funny part though. If you read about burbot where they are native, their populations are struggling in a lot of those places. The theories all come back with the same common denominators, overfishing and dams. In Idaho's Kootenai River, the populations are so low, they are trying to raise burbot in hatcheries (crazy, huh?).

I strongly believe, fishing pressure and intense harvest will limit burbot production in the Gorge. Last winter, the catch rates dropped like a rock at Lost Dog after about a month of ice. I like to think it was because of all the pressure it was receiving. The "Burbot Bash" tally was around 275 burbot for 2-nights of fishing, and that's just what was reported. Anglers fishing that area the weekends after, complained about not catching any burbot. Unfortunate for them, but that's a good thing! I think that's a prime example of fishing/harvest having a localized impact. It's a small dent on the reservoir population as a whole, but a huge dent for the Lost Dog area.

With guys like "Fish" and his family and friends out there ripping in 50-100 of these things in a night, we'll hopefully maintain the burbot population at a manageable level. I think we could really help the situation by fishing the burbot in areas that correspond with intense kokanee spawning, including Holmes Crossing and Wild Horse. If you can reduce burbot numbers in those areas (hopefully with the success seen at Lost Dog), you're removing potential kokanee egg, fry, and juvenile predation.

Every bit helps. One 18-inch female burbot produces a million eggs, so it does make a difference. Unfortunately, like you said, you'll never totally rid the lake of them. Thanks, Ryno