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AFDan52
11-30-2008, 11:27 AM
I was reading the post on Downrigger weights that some prefer, here is something else to ponder. Does anyone use any other color on their weights besides Black? If so what colors and does it really matter/movie

FishHunter
11-30-2008, 01:59 PM
I started out with black then switched to lime green for a few years until the coating wore off. I re-coated them with red for the last half of the season this year. The lime green worked better for me than the black or red.

I am going to wait until July next summer to really see if there is a difference between the green and red since I didn't get a full season in on the red.

I am not sure why the color makes a difference, but I am just as curious as AFDan to find out. movie

SilverBullets
11-30-2008, 04:51 PM
I go by the school of thought that it's the little things that make a difference, and the more attraction the better. When I first started kok fishing around 6 years ago, I used a 6lb. black ball. A year or two later I got into the use of holographic tapes, and covered the ball with the colors blue, green, and chartreuse for attraction at depth. I'm not sure if it was that or becoming more knowledgeable about kokanee, but it sure didn't seem to hurt the catch rate! I have since gone to 8lb. balls, and covered them with a few different silver holographic tapes. After last season, the catch rate was still good, but seemed to take a bit longer than the prior year. I'm going to add a few spots of the colors mentioned above for more contrast to see if that makes a difference. I should point out I mainly use a short set-back, and use ball trolls up to mid day. That's what has worked for me, looking forward to see what others opinions are on this. I've wondered myself what is more popular... try to hide the ball, or use it to attract?

oldguysrule
11-30-2008, 06:53 PM
When I started to fish for kokes I used a black ball be since I changed to a white ball my catch ratio has been better.I believe that they are attractions to any type of fish.I am going to try a new color this summer and maybe it will be the holograph colors.And maybe blue.

Petty4life
12-01-2008, 07:08 PM
Im going to paint my downrigger weights with truckbed liner then ruff them up and spray paint them chrome

TheFireman
12-03-2008, 06:16 PM
As long as there not blue balls I don't care. Actually I started out with black fish weights and now I use green pancakes. I think they act like an attractor of sorts so the deeper the fish can see it the better. I also think that adding some type of tape also wouldn't hurt.

Digi-Troller
12-04-2008, 01:20 AM
We started out with black pancakes, moved onto green pankakes, white pancakes, and even tried black fish shaped weights. Right now we are using 12# pancakes in silver, white, and yes... even a couple of blues. You know, if it werent for those damned macs at the Gorge we wouldnt lose so many! Oh well. For what its worth, the pancakes dont seem to hang up on the bottom as easily as the fish shaped ones.

With all of that said, I've never noticed a big difference in catch rates based on color of weight. I have used ball trolls a few times with success though. I guess if you're going to fish close to the weight, you might as well make the weight flashy and attractive.

Kokonuts
12-04-2008, 09:29 AM
We started out with black pancakes, moved onto green pankakes, white pancakes, and even tried black fish shaped weights. Right now we are using 12# pancakes in silver, white, and yes... even a couple of blues. You know, if it werent for those damned macs at the Gorge we wouldnt lose so many! Oh well. For what its worth, the pancakes dont seem to hang up on the bottom as easily as the fish shaped ones.

With all of that said, I've never noticed a big difference in catch rates based on color of weight. I have used ball trolls a few times with success though. I guess if you're going to fish close to the weight, you might as well make the weight flashy and attractive.

What kind of terminal gear are you using for the Macks? I am comming to the Gorge in June & never fished for them.
Thanks ..Kokonuts thumbsup

Full_Monte
12-07-2008, 10:54 PM
The most famous of all koke fishermen, Phil Johnson, used red downrigger weights. Does anyone still do this?

HiTechKoke
12-08-2008, 10:33 AM
I've seen some orange ones on the derby circuit but no red ones... of course people get a bit secretive derby day and we usually are starting in near dark conditions... :-)

More often though in California at least a good number of people use the long 1.25" re-bar weights (15-19 inches long) in case they want to go bottom bouncing or they are in lakes with lots of trees (New Melones) when the water is low or very boulder like (Shaver Lake). Did I mention Kokanee love to hang near trees a lot. :-) Stirring up the lazy loner males on the bottom can make a difference and re-bar weights are perfect for this type of activity. It can induce some action when needed under the right conditions when you see a fish or two resting near the bottom and know it is a Kokanee. I've seen the bottom hugger Kokanee at Shaver on video this last year so I was able to confirm their laziness.

Digi-Troller
12-12-2008, 01:44 AM
Sorry its taken me so long to get to the mac question... I've had some major computer issues that are finally resolved.

For trolling macs at the Gorge we use flat fish, rapalas, lucky crafts, and even frozen chubs trailing big blades. Although we've boated some nice fish we've never really developed any kind of consistency. We've also toyed around with vertical jigging a bit. For the most part we have had a hard time pulling ourselves away from koke fishing long enough to stay after the macs.

Now, these re-bar weights? These sound interesting. Any way I could see a pic or two?

HiTechKoke
12-12-2008, 09:18 AM
I'll see if I can grab one for a picture. Essentially just a steel rod 15-19 inches long and about 1.25" diameter with an eye bolt in the top. I dipped mine in tool dip to help prevent it rusting.

SilverBullets
12-12-2008, 10:16 AM
What do the re-bar weights end up weighing, and any sway back?movie Ever thought of attaching a light(glow)stick to it?

HiTechKoke
12-12-2008, 10:27 AM
It all depends on the length and diameter but most people seem to have them around 7-8 pounds. There are some formulas to determine the weight based on steel density that can be used to better target what you want but it's not all that critical. They will weigh less per mass than lead of course since steel is not as heavy as lead. I think mine was around 8. As for sway back it's the same as a regular cannonball, maybe slightly better as I don't notice too much difference and I run all pancake weights most of the time unless I'm in the tree / boulder lakes.

AFDan52
12-12-2008, 12:35 PM
Ok, guys what are these rebar weights you are talking about?stomperstomperstomper

Kokonuts
12-12-2008, 03:13 PM
What is the advantage of the rebar? Cost because you can lose them on the bottom? Or do they actually work better for regular trolling? thumbsup

Digi-Troller
12-13-2008, 01:14 AM
I believe the advantage would be the shape. Being long and skinny, and connected to the wire at the top it would act like a pencil weight used for drop shotting. It would be much more able to pull up and over obstructions instead of wedging in like conventional weights do. I've toyed in the past with adding a peice of rebar to a regular weight to help lift it over structure. But, I've never thought of upsizing the rebar, eliminating the pancake, and using the steel as the only weight. If you can't tell, this is an exciting development for me. I'll be making some up this winter. We always have spare rebar laying around, so I'll just need some eye bolts to weld on.

Thanks a lot for opening my eyes to this! I'd still love to see a pic of yours just to get this set perfect in my mind... and I'll be sure to post pics of mine when they are complete.

Petty4life
12-13-2008, 09:44 AM
i know a guy that uses pipe filled with lead. and the #1 reason people use pipe or rebar is cost of a rigger ball. rebar is cheap

Full_Monte
12-13-2008, 09:50 AM
This discussion gives me an idea. We took some windows out of an old Victorian house and they had the old window weights for counterbalancing the weight of the window with pulleys. I have a bunch of those weights laying around. They are cast iron, about an inch-and-a-half in diameter and 10 to 15 inches long. They also have an eye cast into one end. I haven't weighed any of them yet, but I bet they'll be in the right range.

On thing that I'm wondering about is if these "pencil weights" have a tendency to twist on the down rigger wire. Anybody have a comment on that? Do any of you weld a fin on the back side of these weights to keep them trolling straight?

HiTechKoke
12-13-2008, 10:20 AM
The advantages are definitely less wedging chance for the tree and boulders - definitely an issue in California at lakes where the water gets low and of course cost can be a lot cheaper if you have access to materials and a machine shop. For bottom bouncing they will not to wedge themselves in the muck.

Monte - It sounds like you have access to the perfect materials needed, you just need to weld or thread in an eye bolt. The terminal tackle on the end of your cable should include a a snap-swivel so you take any twist issues out of the picture. I'll shoot a picture later today when I get get back from Bass Pro Shops and try not to spend any money on myself! HAH!

Kevin

SilverBullets
12-13-2008, 10:55 AM
So it sounds like this type of weight is mainly used when near the bottom or structure. Is it possible to attached a set of ball trolls to the re-bar, or do you go back to conventional weight in open water? Also, have you noticed any drastic change checking your boats electrical field when useing the re-bar, or has this been cured by coating it and insulating it from your wire?

AFDan52
12-13-2008, 11:21 AM
movieThats a question that I was going to ask next, do all metals in and around the boat create this electrical field?

Kokaholic
12-13-2008, 12:28 PM
Since you would be fabricating this item from basically scratch, I would consider getting it chrome dipped. After you have put all your eye attachments and such welded to it. get it dipped in Chrome.

DAMN. Another winter projectthumbsup

Petty4life
12-13-2008, 12:36 PM
Don't read to much into it. ITS FISHING NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, rebar wont put off as much charge as lead. if your dragging the bottom with rebar your going to loose alot.

rebar is simlple. drill a hole in the top attach 20lb test mono and clip the line to the bottom of your cable that way if you hang up it will brake off.

Kokaholic
12-13-2008, 12:55 PM
Something that I think will be worth playing around with a little. great way to attach a ball troll. Then like has been said, If you did hang up, the mono attachment would allow it to break off and not loose God knows what.

SilverBullets
12-13-2008, 02:49 PM
Speaking of ball trolls, has anyone tried attaching them to the rigger wire instead of the weight, then attaching the release clip 3-4' above it? Using the black box, this could extend the field closer to the lure it seems. I use ball trolls in tandem (8' long) which have been insulated from the wire when attached to the ball (because of the rubber snubber).

Kokaholic
12-13-2008, 03:24 PM
we have always attached the ball troll to the ball and then cliped the release to the line above. little easier to get a better idea of my exact depth and also not so much more line from your rigger down to bring up. However, its whatever works best for you for wearever you fish,

Kokonuts
12-13-2008, 05:36 PM
WoW!! I love this homemade stuff!! Sounds like we are off & running on another winter project!

Silver Bullets, I thought BALL TROLLS were just regular flashers hung on the ball. Sooo what are you using thats
8 ft. long?

I have been attaching a regular flasher ( 2ft. or so ) to the ball & the release to the flasher then dropping back at least 10-20 ft to the dodger & lure. Does this sound right?
worthy12

SilverBullets
12-13-2008, 07:35 PM
Kokonuts...
The trolls I have been useing are Vance's Ball Trolls. They are 4' long, and I use 2 in tandem. I run them off the ball, and attach my release clip above on the rigger wire. I then let out line so my dodger is 2' in back of the trolls, and running 4' above. Running this close to the ball is only effective when your at least 40' down in my opinion. Any farther up in the water column I generally get back away from the boat, and shed the trolls.
I have heard of attaching the release clip to the ball trolls, but it seems to me that when you set up your rod and get a good arch, your pulling up on the trolls, thus restricting their rotation, vibration., and flash. I have heard success with this though... when the trolls are pulled up at an angle, the blades flutter more than spin, and that action can attract the koks too. When useing trolls this length, lower the downrigger ball slowly, and be aware of their location when they are raised up. I have used this set up for a few years now, and it really seems to get their attention.thumbsup

Kokonuts
12-14-2008, 02:53 PM
Thanks Silver Bullets, I checked them out at Vances on line. Now I will have to see what I can make up out in the "SHOP".
I have been using the Berkley Steelon Nylon coated wire in 15lb test for Flashers, it comes in a 30ft. spool. The wire is very thin, .021 dia., flexable & the black coating is very smooth. It does come in heavy weights. Now I will have to find some blades! thumbsup......Kokonuts

HiTechKoke
01-04-2009, 06:38 PM
Here's a photo of my steel (not re-bar) stick weights. I had my dad create 3 more for me while I was on Christmas vacation... it helps to have a machine shop as well. :-) These are roughly 19 inches x 1.25 and an eye bolt in the top. The black one is one of my originals that I tool dipped. I'll probably go to 1.5 diameter thickness the next round to make them heavier and maybe a bit shorter. They way about 7 lbs each.

twisted lines
01-18-2009, 01:43 PM
I was reading the post on Downrigger weights that some prefer, here is something else to ponder. Does anyone use any other color on their weights besides Black? If so what colors and does it really matter/movie

I read the red article years ago, and made a mold for 8# pancakes and had them powder coated in red and black, have tried various tapes on them and the red with silver tape is always on my side, but I do still compare with 3 others on the other side laugh hyst Tried for about a hour to post a picture last night, and will give it another attempt some day but not soon. Now for the stick weights, anyone tried to put the eye on the side 6-8" back and pull it horizontal instead of vertical ? how much does the bottom of the stick weight trail the top at trolling speed near the surface where you can see it? The chrome idea is good but why chrome stainless, Its in the way but i would probably not drag it intensionally

vvBob
01-24-2009, 11:01 PM
I use the chrome Shark downrigger weights. They are pricey (about $80) but I feel they are worth the price.
Here in Northern CA we are trolling 45-60 feet for Kokes, so the less you attach to the weight the less drag in the water.
Anytime I am below 25' my set back is 8-10' so I can use the attracting qualities of the Shark weights.

coty449
05-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I've made weights, like I'm sure many of you've done, by melting lead and pouring into an open topped aluminum beer can or regular tin can. I just stick a wire loop in the molton lead for the eye.
How much it weighs is dependent on how full you fill the can.
Salmon and kokes don't seem to mind my crude work. I haven't painted them.

devil boat
06-03-2009, 02:21 PM
You are damn right that color makes a difference....I use nothing but fish shaped 10lb. rubber coated downrigger weights painted to look like Kokanee or Rainbows. Many times I have had a big "bump" on my weight from what I believe to be a curious Mac. I believe that the fish shaped weight attracts other fish just like a lure does, and the more detailed the paint job, the better it does in attracting fish. Good Luck...........

SilverBullets
06-03-2009, 03:12 PM
You are damn right that color makes a difference....I use nothing but fish shaped 10lb. rubber coated downrigger weights painted to look like Kokanee or Rainbows. Many times I have had a big "bump" on my weight from what I believe to be a curious Mac. I believe that the fish shaped weight attracts other fish just like a lure does, and the more detailed the paint job, the better it does in attracting fish. Good Luck...........
Have you had any issues attracting predator fish while useing a short set-back for kokes? I've read about the success with the shark weight, and often wondered about this since it resembles a small fish.

twisted lines
12-02-2009, 10:39 PM
Here's a photo of my steel (not re-bar) stick weights. I had my dad create 3 more for me while I was on Christmas vacation... it helps to have a machine shop as well. :-) These are roughly 19 inches x 1.25 and an eye bolt in the top. The black one is one of my originals that I tool dipped. I'll probably go to 1.5 diameter thickness the next round to make them heavier and maybe a bit shorter. They way about 7 lbs each.

Thanks and it finally happened today with a little twist laugh hyst just a little more to do to finish then let the testing begin, Oh that's four months away.

SuperD
12-03-2009, 10:36 AM
The bottom one looks like a snag waiting to happen. I assume it was designed to move away from the boat.

twisted lines
12-04-2009, 08:40 AM
The bottom one looks like a snag waiting to happen. I assume it was designed to move away from the boat.

Someone asked if it was an anchor! That is one I don't plan on dragging. got 9 other's for that, "move away from the boat" almost!

SmokeOnTheWater
12-05-2009, 09:43 AM
What happened to the discussion about downrigger weight COLOR???

My 10# pancakes are red and I seemed to get more fish this past season than ever before. Although other factors may account for the increased success, I'm sure the red weghts didn't hinder it. I just found some red and white reflector tape that I will be adding to the fins of these same pancakes. I also employ lengthy setbacks that are probably not affected by the color of the weight itself. The reflector tape will serve as an added attractor to pull fish in from farther away. If I plan the setback just right, my presentation with the hooks will be right on time.
thumbsup

twisted lines
12-05-2009, 11:44 AM
Thou who opened it asked! try reading posts.


I was reading the post on Downrigger weights that some prefer, here is something else to ponder. Does anyone use any other color on their weights besides Black? If so what colors and does it really matter/movie



Ok, guys what are these rebar weights you are talking about?stomperstomperstomper

AFDan52
12-05-2009, 01:52 PM
Twisted lines , I posted the Original Question about DOWNRIGGER COLORS and WHY? I don't know where or when the discussion got a little off track , but I have been watching this post regularly . I don't have a problem with the imformation that has come up , I welcome all input. Too much info is better that none at all.
I find it very interesting to hear and sometimes see some of the ideas that folks come up with or are testing . I wasn't aware of all the different types of Downrigger weights that are used , I guess that it depends on where you live .

twisted lines
12-05-2009, 04:25 PM
I am glad I took the time to read your post last year and have been wanting to try these weights after reading about them through your postings I have not seen them anywhere else nor heard of them! Thanks thumbsup I like the fact they may not show on the Fish finder as much as some other weights. Mine are SS Shiny Steal laugh hyst with colored tape some day if thats important.


Twisted lines , I posted the Original Question about DOWNRIGGER COLORS and WHY? I don't know where or when the discussion got a little off track , but I have been watching this post regularly . I don't have a problem with the imformation that has come up , I welcome all input. Too much info is better that none at all.
I find it very interesting to hear and sometimes see some of the ideas that folks come up with or are testing . I wasn't aware of all the different types of Downrigger weights that are used , I guess that it depends on where you live .

twisted lines
04-10-2010, 03:56 PM
Almost finished after Kokonuts post some time back. Like I need more weights laugh hyst Soon to be Pink!

Kokonuts
04-10-2010, 05:19 PM
Almost finished after Kokonuts post some time back. Like I need more weights laugh hyst Soon to be Pink!

Good looking weights! Is that sheet metal you are using for the fin?

I posted some pictures on my album here (P.3) because thats the only way I could get them on. I am working on some other styles now!

thumbsup.....Kokonuts

SilverBullets
04-10-2010, 05:31 PM
I cover mine with holographic tape...

SuperD
04-10-2010, 06:05 PM
I cover mine with holographic tape...

Gary, I think you gave away what type of hippy you used to be back in the day. laugh hyst

MMDON
04-10-2010, 10:10 PM
I cover mine with holographic tape...

I find the Silver Holographic Tape seems to make the Kokes think it's another Koke.

thumbsup

jestfishin'
04-11-2010, 07:54 PM
Back to "what color". In the article "Catching Large Kokanee" by Phil Johnson and Phil Pirone let me quote the following passage, "Phil (Johnson) uses the finned or rudder type downrigger ball that he coats with red or black rubberized material. There is evidence that the red ball tends to be less visible to a fish than the standard black downrigger ball. He feels he gets more bites with the red weights."

salmonster
04-12-2010, 10:20 AM
We use white finned 10lb with holographic tape and 3 foot Macks lure "flashlight" trolls with clips at the back and run the dodgers 3-6 ft behind that. We have had great success with that.
Perhaps the biggest advantage of being within 8-10 ft of the ball is the ability to turn sharply. When we hit a pod of fish, we will almost spin a circle and do not tangle up.

Mark McWillis
04-12-2010, 11:06 AM
Mine are 10 lb ball weights, I have the mould, and are painted the same color red as my boat.

MMDON
04-12-2010, 11:39 AM
Mine are 10 lb ball weights, I have the mould, and are painted the same color red as my boat.

That is a really red boat! tooexcited

Mark McWillis
04-12-2010, 03:54 PM
That is a really red boat! tooexcited

In pics it's just red but in real life it's REALLY RED!! LOL!!

gonefishing
04-12-2010, 07:38 PM
After last weeks fishing, I am now a beliver on the Black Ball weights. I passed over a school of kokes with my balls at 70 ft. Spotted the fish and marked a way point. Went back though the school after adjusting weights down to 110 ft. The school was stacked between 98F and 120Ft. Got a hit but my buddy who is learning did'nt hook up. So I went though the 3rd time and the fish were gone. So I ran some bigger circles around the way point and found smaller groups spread out to 50 yards away. This sort of makes me a believer.

So where does one find 10 lb fish shapped down rigger weights. I like that idea. Red plastic/ rubberized paint is and easy fix on my current balls.

One question, If fish can't see red, then why do retailers sell so many versions of lures with red patterns and so on? Just a question.

salmonster
04-12-2010, 07:49 PM
Mine are 10 lb ball weights, I have the mould, and are painted the same color red as my boat.

If I had a 24 ft precision weld with a diesel engine, I'd paint everything I own that color! Nice boat.

twisted lines
04-12-2010, 11:28 PM
After last weeks fishing, I am now a beliver on the Black Ball weights. I passed over a school of kokes with my balls at 70 ft. Spotted the fish and marked a way point. Went back though the school after adjusting weights down to 110 ft. The school was stacked between 98F and 120Ft. Got a hit but my buddy who is learning did'nt hook up. So I went though the 3rd time and the fish were gone. So I ran some bigger circles around the way point and found smaller groups spread out to 50 yards away. This sort of makes me a believer.

So where does one find 10 lb fish shapped down rigger weights. I like that idea. Red plastic/ rubberized paint is and easy fix on my current balls.

One question, If fish can't see red, then why do retailers sell so many versions of lures with red patterns and so on? Just a question.


It is hard not to drag right through them but it may be why they weren't there for long! try going just over or under them and they may stay together longer and you won't have to continue the hunt?

SilverBullets
04-13-2010, 12:23 AM
One question, If fish can't see red, then why do retailers sell so many versions of lures with red patterns and so on? Just a question.

From what I've read, most fish see color. The color red is the first color to disappear as you go down the water column...it turns a shade of grey by around the 15' level. There aren't that many red kokanee lures, it seems most red lures target shallower species of fish. In my experiance with red, it works good for trout but not for kokanee (fluorescent red and pink are the exceptions.)
As far as the color of the downrigger balls, I guess it all comes down to personal preference weather you want to try to hide them or make them more visible. Since kokes aren't ball shy, I figure why not use it to your advantage? Everything we put down there is meant to help attract...scent, bait, lures, dodgers, ball trolls, in-line gang trolls, etc etc...why not the ball?

Mark McWillis
04-13-2010, 11:51 AM
At Merwin last Sunday with the ball at 10' I could not see them, even with Polaroid sunglasses with the tip of the release, which is Chartreuse, was clearly visible.

gonefishing
04-13-2010, 01:37 PM
After this weekend, my balls will all be red with reflector tape. That makes sense. I have lighter green balls for shallower depths. I will add reflector tape to the tail on those. This all makes sense. Still getting great information on this board. Always good information here on the forum.101idea101

Bduck
04-13-2010, 02:10 PM
There is a very good post by FishwithGary about colors in this general discussion board "Fluorescent colors explained". This should help in giving an idea on making your weights more attractive as well if you like being on the bold side. My DR weights are ball type, 8# & 10#, black with some relective or color to them but not over whelming. Enough to use to attract.

SuperD
04-13-2010, 02:17 PM
Okay, here's my story on downrigger balls. A couple of years ago at the Gorge, I was on a friends boat that had 4 chrome sharks. All rods were catching fish. In the midst of the trip we lost one of the sharks and had to replace it with a black ball with tape. That rigger seemed to die on the catch rate from that point. That is until I decided to add a ball troll to it. Then it caught fire and was hotter than the sharks for a good stretch of time. Take from that what you may but my opinion would be that stealthy balls aren't desireable for Kokes.

Bduck
04-13-2010, 02:26 PM
The weights are just like trying to find right lure sometimes. They can also be setup on the spot to have their appearance changed or add to.

gonefishing
04-13-2010, 09:03 PM
Ok, I think I am going to try something. After reading everyones posts, I have come up with an approach that is a combination of several posts. I order 2 cannon 8 lb fish shapped downrigger weights. I am going to change them to a light color, hopefully grey. Then glue / attach the lower sides of the weights with silver (scale like) reflector tape, paint the very bottom white. Then I will add a 3 blade ball troll style blades with an eye to connect my release to behind this creation.

Besides working over by 10 lb balls I am going to try this out.

We shall see if I can catch more101chromefish101

I shall name this fishing system the KOKEMAG tooexcited

MMDON
04-14-2010, 01:30 AM
After last weeks fishing, I am now a beliver on the Black Ball weights. I passed over a school of kokes with my balls at 70 ft. Spotted the fish and marked a way point. Went back though the school after adjusting weights down to 110 ft. The school was stacked between 98F and 120Ft. Got a hit but my buddy who is learning did'nt hook up. So I went though the 3rd time and the fish were gone. So I ran some bigger circles around the way point and found smaller groups spread out to 50 yards away. This sort of makes me a believer.

So where does one find 10 lb fish shapped down rigger weights. I like that idea. Red plastic/ rubberized paint is and easy fix on my current balls.

One question, If fish can't see red, then why do retailers sell so many versions of lures with red patterns and so on? Just a question.

We fish for late season kokes using red lures to hit the big males. Let's run this theory past the color guys. Yes Red turns gray but . . . and this is a big but. The Kokes can still tell it's Red down 100 feet. How is that possible. It's called gray scale, just like the old fish finders. While red is gray past say 20 feet or so each color retains some of the pigment. Since fish spend their lives at depth, it's my studied opinion that each color is represented by a different shade of gray. They still know it's red which is how they can identify the color of the spawning males they do battle with and why red lures make these pigs charge a lure they supposedly can't see the color of. Now obviously we just let them go once we catch them as they are in pretty sad shape for eating but the fight is great and the fish are huge!

skookum9
04-14-2010, 10:54 AM
MMM, I think you are spot on. There is a book I enjoyed reading called "How Fish See". This book goes into this whole thing much deeper than anything else I've ever read. Pink and red and orange colored lures still work at depths of 100 ft and more. I know this from first hand experience. And there is no better or more simple answer than what you posted. Red does turn black/grey but does not turn invisible by any means. And the black/grey that it turns is not the same color as just any black or grey, it is specific to the red lure. Also remember that your lure's emit sound waves to also entice a strike and that even though the colors that have turned a black or grey at depths and are harder to see at a distance than some colors like chartreuse, they can still work well because of these sound waves. Also, I personally like to use red at depth but I prefer to use it incombination with a contrasting color such as white. This helps to make the white stand out even more than it otherwise would. Hence why I like the pink and white Gibbs and Nordics.

MMDON
04-14-2010, 02:39 PM
Dr. Kajiama (Spelling) posts as Dr. K on a board I own. He wrote the book what fish see. FishWithGary is a close personal friend and has done many studies on the subject as well. I think there is a lot of info lost when we just say a color turns gray at a certain depth without thinking the process past the "gray" point and understanding fish still can differentiate even though the color isn't vivid in it's original form. We know that Salmon can see every color that the human eye can see plus they can see UV and other spectrums. I

Interesting discussion!101goodpost101

SuperD
04-14-2010, 04:55 PM
Don, you were the first one to tell me that in lure color tests salmon preferred the grey lead weights. Maybe sometimes grey is just grey and they like it! LOL!

jzell
04-14-2010, 08:32 PM
My politically correct pancake DR weights are not "colored", they are black.

Not convinced that the color carries any weight in the attraction equation.

But it makes for an interesting read.

jz

MMDON
04-14-2010, 08:50 PM
My politically correct pancake DR weights are not "colored", they are black.

Not convinced that the color carries any weight in the attraction equation.

But it makes for an interesting read.

jz

So I would guess all of your lures are black as well?

MMDON
04-14-2010, 08:52 PM
Don, you were the first one to tell me that in lure color tests salmon preferred the grey lead weights. Maybe sometimes grey is just grey and they like it! LOL!

During the tests they were in a river with a depth of about 5 feet however. tooexcited

jestfishin'
04-15-2010, 12:30 PM
All of this color stuff is interesting reading so let me throw a curve at you. The “hot” setup for the last couple of years has been UV. Nowadays just about everything is coming in UV configurations. At the SAC ISE show this year several booths had representatives with small UV flashlights to display the differences between UV and plain lures. I was so impressed (hooked) that I went out and bought a UV flashlight to see how all of my older lures and dodgers looked under UV light. Pretty amazing differences. So what’s your opinion on UV??

Trophy Taker
04-15-2010, 12:43 PM
PVC pipe filled with buckshot works really well and won't beat the boat up and they are fairly cheap to make.

SilverBullets
04-15-2010, 01:14 PM
My politically correct pancake DR weights are not "colored", they are black.

Not convinced that the color carries any weight in the attraction equation.

But it makes for an interesting read.

jz

Actually, black is also attracting due to it's contrast. Alot of articles mention the use of black when targeting some species as being your best choice on cloudy days or while fishing turbid waters. I've used black lures for kokes on sunny days and often thought it's success was due to the contrast between the lure and the light above.

MMDON
04-16-2010, 01:32 AM
I think you are on the right track SB! FishWithGary bases a lot of his lures on contrast rather than color.

jzell
04-20-2010, 06:53 PM
3M,

Was referring the DR ball color, which is what this post is all about.

Again, I'm not convinced that the color of ones ball(s) has any attraction factor. One guys opinion.

Your mileage may vary. Side effect may include.......

jz

BROWNBAGGER
05-06-2010, 04:21 PM
I have to give coldfooter a shoot out. I just picked up my new fish shaped down rigger weights and can't wait to use them! Maybe I'll have to do a high tech experiment between them and my black, doctored up pan cake weights. Or maybe not, these are sweet looking weights.

DLM
05-06-2010, 07:55 PM
I have to give coldfooter a shoot out. I just picked up my new fish shaped down rigger weights and can't wait to use them! Maybe I'll have to do a high tech experiment between them and my black, doctored up pan cake weights. Or maybe not, these are sweet looking weights.

I would be especially interested in what they look like on the FF. It would appear they would really bounce the signal and may clutter up the screen more than a pancake. They sure look great and the FF issue is the only thing that so far has kept me from pulling the trigger.

salmonsam
05-22-2010, 10:54 PM
thanks for the info ive got a fish weight im gonna paint or crome somehow like another kokanee the whole idea is to attract fish into a feeding frenzy by all the flashers, if to much clutter on the ff theres always spray paint

SuperD
11-20-2010, 09:56 AM
Did anyone do more research on this topic this last season? I just bought some orange pancakes from Cabelas. Silver tape on the fins?

Bduck
11-20-2010, 11:16 AM
Dave, Do you have any examples to lay up against the orange? I'm wandering how a thin red reflective border would look around the fin edges.

twisted lines
11-20-2010, 11:32 AM
Did anyone do more research on this topic this last season? I just bought some orange pancakes from Cabelas. Silver tape on the fins?

I did put one of my pancake fish in the water the first trip out for a few minutes and found it had a little more action then I wanted at the upper speed for Kokanee, it would make a full large circle tooexcited after trying to detune it twice in the boat while fishing put further testing off.

Are your new weights listed at 10s but weight closer to 9 ? I think you will like them.

SilverBullets
11-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Nice weights Dave!thumbsup Since the UV dodgers have been working out so well the last couple years have you concidered useing UV tape on the fin? Delta Tackle has it...item #08440.

SuperD
11-20-2010, 01:54 PM
I couldn't find anything to look at on their website. You got any to show a picture of it?

SilverBullets
11-20-2010, 06:17 PM
I couldn't find anything to look at on their website. You got any to show a picture of it?

Yep...it's not on their web site. I special order it through Wholesale Sports (fomally Sportman's Warehouse.) They don't carry Delta products but since Delta and Gibbs merged awhile back I had them put it on their next Gibbs Order. The tape looks to be an exact match to the tape Shasta Tackle uses on their dodgers that they advertise to be UV. I talked to Gary Miralles about it once...he said the tape isn't uv but the coating is. All I know is it seems to work. The last picture of dodgers in my album show a couple that I added the tape to. I like to add it to the back of alot dodgers (especially the shasta uv dodgers) for twice the effect.

Full_Monte
11-21-2010, 10:41 AM
I think painting down-rigger weights various colors catches more fish just like buying colored condoms gets you more women...

Kokonuts
11-21-2010, 02:51 PM
laugh hyst....Monte cant you keep a SECRET? .....laugh hyst

SuperD
11-21-2010, 05:15 PM
Can I use the same analogy for glow in the dark condoms and glow in the dark fishing lures?

Full_Monte
11-22-2010, 11:07 AM
You can use the analogy if you like, but you would have to test it out. I think you would get some funny looks from your fishing buddies wearing a glow-in-the-dark condom on a pre-dawn fishing trip. The proof would be if you come back to the dock with more women than fish...tooexcited.

SuperD
11-22-2010, 08:05 PM
Looking for a vote. Which tape would you pick, option 1 or option 2?

trollmonkey
11-22-2010, 09:42 PM
I like option one.I'm just wondering if those glow in the dark thingys would fit on a pancake wt.101shock1101

SilverBullets
11-22-2010, 10:09 PM
I think they both look good. The silver tape should produce a good contrast between the shade of grey the red/orange turns as it goes down the water colume.

SuperD
11-22-2010, 10:24 PM
I think they both look good. The silver tape should produce a good contrast between the shade of grey the red/orange turns as it goes down the water colume.
Me too but at this point the red is just laying on top waiting for you guys to convince me one way or the other so I can complete the back sides of the fins.

Bluknight
11-22-2010, 10:28 PM
I vote for option #2 with the red stripe. I always figure if the scent of blood gets the sharks into a frenzy then a flash a red in the water would trigger any fish to attack. Kokes can be violent little suckers!

Full_Monte
11-23-2010, 01:25 AM
Option 1. Red disappears into grey/black in the first few feet of water depth.