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Thread: Improving Loss Ratio

  1. #1
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    Default Improving Loss Ratio

    Thought we could all learn a few things if we listed what works for each of us to increase our hook to land ratio. I've read over the years of up to a 50% loss rate, but have never experienced more than 25% myself. Usually it's more like 15-20%. Some of the things I have learned are:
    use a long handled net
    keep fish under surface
    use a limber rod, light drag
    double hook set-ups
    mono line, not braided
    tight setting on release clip
    give no slack

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  2. #2
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    Good topic. I think alot of fish are lost near the boat. Bringing the fish in too quickly is a real problem. When that happens the fish still has alot of energy and can really go nuts when it sees the boat. Having a long handle on the net as mentioned is a good solution. And speaking of nets (probably preaching to the choir here) how you handle the net is really key also. I'm surprised how many times I've seen people "lay" the net over the top of the fish like you're trying to catch a butterfly which I think is a good way to lose the fish. It seems to me that it works better to "shoot" the net just under the fish and rapidly retrieve it with a slight upwards motion trapping the fish in the net but not picking the fish up out of the water until it is alongside the boat. What style of net is used will have some bearing on how that would work. Other thoughts?
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again

  3. #3
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    Another thing is re-tying leaders. How many times do you get a hot lure and keep throwing it out there over and over until you lose a fish, the lure, or both? I, for one, am trying to be more disciplined and proactive in this area.
    My dad's tackle business, GoodDayFishing, will be introducing some things that should help reduce the loss ratio also. He has primarily been into the salmon scene here in the Northwest, but will be branching out into the kokanee and trout markets. I'll post a link when the new stuff is on his web site.
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again

  4. #4
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    Another thing that we do when we are fighting a large Koke is to stop and go. We will kick the motor in and out of forward and nuteral. 5 secounds each until we land the fish. This also will allow you to keep your other lines in the water and keep them from falling and getting either tangled or snaged up. As also changed things up with the action on the tackle to entice some strikes.

    All of the above listed ideas are all great ideas and if your not doing them, you need to start. They will for sure improve your catch and net rate.

    Great topic guys. Lets see what else others have to offer
    Team:Rocky Mountain Tackle, Radical Glow, Fresh water basics, Velocity fishing.

  5. #5
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    I use a rubber net with a 8' handle, and have the best luck laying the front lip of the net just under water, so at the last minute the fish can be pulled into the net while lifting it up. The koks where I fish are small, so this method works well for their size. I have read some take the motor out of gear, but I have got doubles numerous times by trolling while a fish is reeled in. In my experience, I have a better landing ratio with a short set back. Numerous times fishing farther back I have lost fish, maybe due to the line stretch and not getting a good hook set. Has anyone seen their catch rate increase by not putting corn on the trailing hook, so it can do it's job better as a stinger hook?

  6. #6
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    Default Improving Loss Ratio

    Great Ideas..In my limited exp. I find getting the net into the water below the fish when you bring him up helps a lot. Also I have a long handle Black net.

    The hardest part is when you are fishing by your self which I do a lot of at Lake Merwin!
    Last edited by Kokonuts; 11-25-2008 at 09:18 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Yah, those one man deals can turn into a real cluster. I was at Detroit Lake this summer and hooked a koke at 100 ft. down (manual down rigger). Must have had my release too tight because I could not pop the line off. I kicked the troll motor out of gear and alternated between cranking the downrigger up and bringing in line on the reel. Managed to land the fish. Goes to show that sometimes you can do everything wrong and get the fish...or you can do everything right and still lose the fish.
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again

  8. #8
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    A very good topic. Every koke fisherman I know has lost fish at one time or another.

    Some of the things I have learned are:
    use a long handled net. :Its taken me a few years,but i finally learned that a long handled net can make a different between a missed fish and a fish in the boat.
    keep fish under surface: This isn't always a easy thing to do. With the way that the kokes jump ,and do their dance it's hard to keep them under the surface.
    use a limber rod, light drag: I totally agree with this.That why i use 7ft ulta lite poles.it makes fighting the fish that more fun.Plus you can still turn a fish when you have too. One of the biggest mistakes I have seen people make when fighting a fish,is that they always want to pump the rod to work the fish.I have seen more fish lost this way then i can count.
    double hook set-ups: I have to say yes and no for me. Alot of it depends on what time of year it is.In the spring and summer ,I will use double hook set-ups,and they work well. Then about august i will switch to a single hook attached to a small ball bearing swivel. I think that this helps not to lose as many fish,because they are not able to break off the leader on the hook as easy as before.
    mono line, not braided: I have never fished with braid for kokes,so I cant compare.
    tight setting on release clip: I like to use small adjustable releases,I can set the line way back in the pads ,and still get a good release when a fish hits.

    give no slack: slack is not our friend when fighting a fish.

    The hardest part is when you are fishing by your self which I do a lot: I also fish a lot by myself,and it can turn into a CF real easy. The old saying about a Chinese fire drill come to mind. When ya have a double and your all by yourself.
    "Chance Favors A Prepared Mind"


  9. #9
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    I cant believe that you fish by your self with two poles...WOW You the Man!!

    I have switched to braid because the Mono I was using kept twisting up, even with the better brands. What type of Mono are you using?

    Kokonuts
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokonuts View Post
    I cant believe that you fish by your self with two poles...WOW You the Man!!

    I have switched to braid because the Mono I was using kept twisting up, even with the better brands. What type of Mono are you using?

    Kokonuts
    Are you using spinning reels? What about the type of swivel you use on your dodgers?
    Age 65.
    20 ft. Jetcraft. 90hp Evinrude Etec, 8hp Yamaha kicker, Minn Kota electric troller. Electric 1106 Scotty downriggers, Lowrance HDS7 Fish Finder/GPS. Airmar P66.
    Also have a 15 ft. Gregor. 25hp Yamaha electric 2-stroke. Two electric 1106 Scotty downriggers. Lowrance HDS7 Fish Finder/GPS.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokonuts View Post
    I cant believe that you fish by your self with two poles...WOW You the Man!!

    I have switched to braid because the Mono I was using kept twisting up, even with the better brands. What type of Mono are you using?

    Kokonuts
    In my experience the Maxima Ultragreen has never caused a problem. I tie up all my set-ups with it and use a barrel swivel on the ends of the leaders, except for the hoochies. All 4 of the levelwind reels on the boat are loaded with this same line, and have had no problems. I did try braid years ago when first targeting koks, but found I needed more stretch for their soft mouths, and I had trouble keeping it in the release clip.
    Last edited by SilverBullets; 11-27-2008 at 05:55 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Line type

    I will try the mono on my spinning reels but I have just put Power Pro 10lbtest Green braid on the level winds.
    Thanks for the input!!
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Monte View Post
    Are you using spinning reels? What about the type of swivel you use on your dodgers?
    Baitcaster / level wind reels are the norm for most folks and I rarely see anyone using a spinning reel since line twist can become a major issue over time, especially for those the reel against fish when not gaining line. When I first started Kokanee fishing I used spinning reels since I was converting over from trout fishing.

    The reels I like the most right now are the Tica Caiman Series reels, CM150 or the slightly less expensive CT150 models. I also have a number of Abu Garcia 4500 C4 series reels that work fine as well, I prefer the C4 series over the C3 (more ball bearings and smoother). The key for any of these is a smooth drag system. The Tica's are great in that you release one screw (and it stays in place and does not fall out) and then twist the reel and it is open for you to do any work or maintenance.

    As for swivels to the dodgers I'm a big fan of very high quality ball bearing swivels just in case you get a lure combo out of control then the swivel may be able to keep your line from twisting. The swivels from Sampo are the ones I use. They are not cheap but I trust them and then never have failed. Here's a link to them:

    http://www.sampoinc.com/sa_spr_locksnap.htm

  14. #14
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    The reels I like the most right now are the Tica Caiman Series reels, CM150 or the slightly less expensive CT150 models.

    I will 2nd that. Very nice reels for the money.
    Team:Rocky Mountain Tackle, Radical Glow, Fresh water basics, Velocity fishing.

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    I've read in the past that having clickers on the reels or having them installed was popular on the abu garcia's. What is the purpose of this? Is it that when lowering the set-up, it keeps resistance on the spool? I have got in the habit of putting my thumb on the spool when lowering the downrigger. Is there another reason for the clickers that I'm missing?

  16. #16
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    Yep.. many of us put the clicker kit on the smaller Abu's that don't come with it. For those who stack if you use a ShuttleHawk to put your line back down then the clicker puts good resistance on the spool when in free spool mode so you can just leave it in the holder and it stops clicking when its done. So if you are trying to get 4 lines down quickly it can help.

    The other reason I like it is when I top line for trout it's great to have that drag clicker screaming on the initial hits and runs. Of course the same could happen with the Kokanee if you get busy and the fish is already off the rigger and running.

    One other minor thing but important is they are useful with kids to know if they are gaining or losing on a fish when reeling as it is hard for them to tell I have found. My famous question to them is whether the fish is still on sometimes they can't tell - more of a problem with smaller Kokanee - of course not a problem for you Gorge folks. :-) I have to say the kids lose less fish than adults as my motto with them is to keep reeling and never stop and the drag does the rest. They don't have that notion of wanting to muscle the fish that many non Kokanee fishing people have a tendency to do when they should let that limber pole does its job with the drag. Our loss ratio this year was extremely low once hooked...probably around 5% if I had to guess.
    Last edited by HiTechKoke; 11-29-2008 at 10:48 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Bullets View Post
    I've read in the past that having clickers on the reels or having them installed was popular on the abu garcia's. What is the purpose of this? Is it that when lowering the set-up, it keeps resistance on the spool? I have got in the habit of putting my thumb on the spool when lowering the downrigger. Is there another reason for the clickers that I'm missing?
    I think you are correct about the clickers. The original reason for clickers was to alert fishermen when their rod had a fish on. I remember fishing ocean salmon on a party boat as a kid using those 2 lb. tolling weights with a quick-release. There were times when the action wasn't frequent that I would sit on a bench nearby or heave over the side from being seasick. The clicker would let me know that I had a fish on. I don't use clickers much any more as I don't like the sound. I think clickers are a good thing for kids or adults with short attention spans.
    Age 65.
    20 ft. Jetcraft. 90hp Evinrude Etec, 8hp Yamaha kicker, Minn Kota electric troller. Electric 1106 Scotty downriggers, Lowrance HDS7 Fish Finder/GPS. Airmar P66.
    Also have a 15 ft. Gregor. 25hp Yamaha electric 2-stroke. Two electric 1106 Scotty downriggers. Lowrance HDS7 Fish Finder/GPS.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiTechKoke View Post
    Baitcaster / level wind reels are the norm for most folks and I rarely see anyone using a spinning reel since line twist can become a major issue over time, especially for those the reel against fish when not gaining line. When I first started Kokanee fishing I used spinning reels since I was converting over from trout fishing.

    The reels I like the most right now are the Tica Caiman Series reels, CM150 or the slightly less expensive CT150 models. I also have a number of Abu Garcia 4500 C4 series reels that work fine as well, I prefer the C4 series over the C3 (more ball bearings and smoother). The key for any of these is a smooth drag system. The Tica's are great in that you release one screw (and it stays in place and does not fall out) and then twist the reel and it is open for you to do any work or maintenance.

    As for swivels to the dodgers I'm a big fan of very high quality ball bearing swivels just in case you get a lure combo out of control then the swivel may be able to keep your line from twisting. The swivels from Sampo are the ones I use. They are not cheap but I trust them and then never have failed. Here's a link to them:

    http://www.sampoinc.com/sa_spr_locksnap.htm
    That is helpful. Do the Tica reels have line counters on them or not? Where do you buy them? I asked for them at the Fisherman's Warehouse a couple months ago and they didn't stock Tica. I've been using spinning reels, but am switching for next season. I did buy a Daiwa with a line counter, but noticed later that it has significant side-to-side play on the crank shaft.
    Last edited by Full_Monte; 11-29-2008 at 10:59 AM.
    Age 65.
    20 ft. Jetcraft. 90hp Evinrude Etec, 8hp Yamaha kicker, Minn Kota electric troller. Electric 1106 Scotty downriggers, Lowrance HDS7 Fish Finder/GPS. Airmar P66.
    Also have a 15 ft. Gregor. 25hp Yamaha electric 2-stroke. Two electric 1106 Scotty downriggers. Lowrance HDS7 Fish Finder/GPS.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Monte View Post
    That is helpful. Do the Tica reels have line counters on them or not? Where do you buy them? I asked for them at the Fisherman's Warehouse a couple months ago and they didn't stock Tica. I've been using spinning reels, but am switching for next season. I did buy a Daiwa with a line counter, but noticed later that it has significant side-to-side play on the crank shaft.
    Kokaneemart.com carries the tica reels
    I just know stuff...

  20. #20
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    The Tica's do not have line counters. Generally I am fishing with pretty short setbacks most of the season so it has been easy to eyeball the distance or just do the old "pulls" method. Where it would have come in handy and having that Daiwa may be on my list for this next year is for jigging or top lining for trout to know I have them set back 150 feet for example.

    One note on the drag system on the Tica that seems minor but I really like it and that is the drag clicks every micro adjustment so you hear it which I really like.

    Monte - I hear there may be a few changes to the new Tica 2009 models but I need to check, they are not a big deal though.

    Good to know Jason that KokaneeMart has them - I didn't know Ric was carrying them now.

    Kevin

  21. #21
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    Careful with the line counters for jigging...I had my Daiwa AD17LC loaded with a lighter line than the 10lb test recommended and at a depth of 50' I was off by 12' on the counter. I'm gonna keep useing the line counters for trolling with the correct line for the best accuracy on the counters, and will stick with the lighter weight leaders. I also use short set-backs (around 5-10' depending on the use of ball trolls) but when the bite is off I'll go back around 40-80', early season up high even farther. For jigging next season I will be loading a spinning reel with braid and fluorocarbon leader. The braid should detect bites better, and hopefully set the hook better without the line stretch. Just need to measure how far each pull will be to get to depth when targeting suspended schools where I fish. Will also be jigging just off the bottom in around 60' of water...last season this method produced bigger fish over trolling. Some of the things I have learned and need to work on next season to improve my loss ratio while jigging are:
    concentration
    quick reflex
    sharp hooks
    no stretch line
    sensitive rod
    Last edited by SilverBullets; 11-29-2008 at 06:13 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokonuts View Post
    I cant believe that you fish by your self with two poles...WOW You the Man!!

    I have switched to braid because the Mono I was using kept twisting up, even with the better brands. What type of Mono are you using?

    Kokonuts
    I run Stren 8lb High Impact on my trolling rigs. I tie up 24-36in Berkley 8lb Vanish flourocarbon leaders with Spro barrel swivels on each end. I don't have problems with break-offs, and this year my loss rates were minimal.

  23. #23
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    Default Improving Loss Ratio

    Ryno....Are you using Levelwind or spinning reels for trolling? I have 2 Abu 6500 LC set up with !0 lb. Braid and I have 2 Abu 5500 that I am going to put Mono on. These are on the Lami Kokanee Specials.
    I am also looking for a good pole for the 6500s, what would you recommend for the Lake Trout at F. G. ?
    Thanks....Kokonuts
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  24. #24
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    Ryno....Are you using Levelwind or spinning reels for trolling?

    I use levelwinds. I'm currently running a pair of Daiwa Sealine 47 linecounters, which I love. They hold lots of line and have killer drags. I also have a pair of Daiwa Accudepth 27 linecounters, which I don't like because the drags are poor. They are all spooled with the 10lb test and rigged on 7.5ft medium action rods.

    I am also looking for a good pole for the 6500s, what would you recommend for the Lake Trout at F. G. ?

    I use the same trolling set-ups for lakers, but it's rare I catch any big ones. We've landed some in the 10-15lb range without any problem, but haven't had the opportunity to test them on fish bigger than that. I just hope they hit the rods rigged with the Sealine 47s, which have the optimum drag. Good luck, Ryno

  25. #25
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    Here are some of things I do to improve my landing ratio. Much of it has already been mentioned above.

    1)Double hook set-up on lures.
    2)Use size 4 or size 2 hooks
    3)Donít run flashers inline unless that is the only way to get bites.
    4)Ultralite slow action rods rated for 2-6 lb line.
    5)Use mono not braided line.
    6)Set the clip tension tight so a good hook set is produced. An average
    sized Kokanee should not be able to release the line from the clip, IMHO.
    7)Get the rod out of the holder, and line out of the clip, as soon as possible
    after a bite so any slack can be removed putting you in control of the fight.
    People new to downriggers and Kokanee loose fish by being too
    slow to get the rod out of the holder and the line out of the clip.
    8)Free spool reel using thumb for a drag when fish make runs.
    9)When a fish is twisting or splashing near the surface, either free spool
    line in a controlled way, or drop the rod tip in the water, or both.
    10)Tire the fish away from the boat if possible.
    11)Bring the fish in slowly, it is a finesse fight.
    12)Use a long handled net.
    13)Wait to net a fish until it is tired and swimming next to the boat.

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